Rabbit
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DT1770
Dec 3, 2015 18:56:02 GMT
Post by Rabbit on Dec 3, 2015 18:56:02 GMT
I had a chance to hear one today for an hour and I took my DT770 along to compare.
In one word - terrific.
To be honest, the DT770 sounds a bit like a poor man's DT1770 by comparison. There are similarities with a deep, strong bass. Not quite as strong perhaps as DT770 and treble is more civilised. With the 770, it's not the bass I have a problem with; it's the treble sibilance. If you listen to voices, they are way too hissy and tippy! The DT1770 doesn't do that anything like as much.
The big difference is just how open they sound. It's kind of like the DT770 has become breezy rather than a closed in headphone. The DT770 does sound pretty open and imo, good on the end of an amp that can control that bass, but the DT1770 is definitely in another class.
It still has a 'u' shaped curve and strong bass like the dt770 though. Also, they Beyer treble peak. Just seems more refined.
It's a nice looking headphone and I was told by the dealer, mainly aimed at the industry rather than enthusiasts. That makes sense with the cable arrangement since it detaches but the headband padding is no longer easily removed. I'm not being funny, but in any studio where people might be using headphones that others have had, they like to whip those bands off and put a new one one. That's probably why the dt770, 880, 990 and 150 were designed that way. Many don't think about these things because they're enthusiasts and only they wear them.
The pads come off the same way but go on in a really novel way. There is a lip which catches the back of the pads and you turn them until they're fully on. It's really easy, but the dealer wouldn't let me pull them off.
It comes with velour and those plasticky pads which I found a little odd. They would probably sound very different. Again, in a studio, pleather is a nice thing since it's way easier to clean for different users. Basically, I used my old DT150 all the time since it only sat on my head, but BBC uses the DT770 and they're often shared. Not really very nice. Better practise is to make sure that each person is issued with their own headphone for health and safety reasons.
Anyway, the DT1770 has pleather available and they're easily changed. Cable that is easily changed and sounds like a pro headphone with luxury added in.
I'd like to buy one now.
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Crispy
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DT1770
Dec 4, 2015 13:48:24 GMT
Post by Crispy on Dec 4, 2015 13:48:24 GMT
I had a chance to hear one today for an hour and I took my DT770 along to compare. In one word - terrific. To be honest, the DT770 sounds a bit like a poor man's DT1770 by comparison. There are similarities with a deep, strong bass. Not quite as strong perhaps as DT770 and treble is more civilised. With the 770, it's not the bass I have a problem with; it's the treble sibilance. If you listen to voices, they are way too hissy and tippy! The DT1770 doesn't do that anything like as much. It's funny Ian I really like my DT770 headphones with all their faults, I don't know what it is with beyer's but I like the sound of them. My first real pair of headphones was the DT550 open backed headphones that sounded great in the shop - no outside interference. At home it was a different matter and my wife was always telling me to turn my volume down because she could hear the headphones and vice versa me telling her to turn the telly down Due to the kindness of some certain person the DT770 solved all my problems. I never really heard the bass hump before until Frans lent me the AKG550 with flat frequency response. I also have the Philips to compare them with and they are pretty flat also. The DT770 to me has a very nice open soundstage for a closed headphone and I honestly cannot say I have ever heard any treble sibilance when listining to them - It may be due to the fact that I usually listen on a Saturday night after some liquid refreshment that just might cloud my judgement? What is the isolation like on the DT1770? So if the new DT1770 has an even better open soundstage and sound even better than the DT770 I may have to investigate them and see if there is anywhere local where I can have a listen & compare the two. I don't hold out too much hope there, HIFI shops are very scarce in Hull.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Dec 4, 2015 18:39:45 GMT
They're a BBC favourite as well. Very often, their dj's have a dt770 strapped on. Thing is, without vat, they cost just £80. When you think about it, not that far above a Senn px200 so they are amazing value for money. I'm sure that the BBC get them even cheaper, so it makes sense for them. They don't 'boom' with voices and yet the deeper bass socks you in the head when it's there. If you listen to speech, you might notices t's and sss standing out. Best way to test is to actually say the word and compare with what you hear on the headphone. You might hear the peak then. My old students had a choice of dt770 or k550. Many were put off by the bass and so went 550 but I have to admit that I'd rather have the accentuated bass of the Beyer than the k550 shrieking at me. I think they're a lovely headphone TBH. Value for money is great. The comfort is superb. Sound is pretty good for most things..... Even orchestral in spite of what some say, they do work ok with orchestral. Pads are nice and 'healthy' for multi use at BBC and headbands are immediately replaceable. The 250 ohm one which is the one I sent to you is possibly the better of them too. Not so bassy as the 80 ohm one. It's had a lot of bashing by Hifi people but it is actually really well regarded by many pros. (As are the DT150, albeit for different purposes) the DT770 is nice for playback where the DT150 is great for performing into. Mind you, the Sony v6 gives off some sibilance at every opportunity, although it is brilliant for monitoring live stuff. Seriously, BBC broadcasts coming out live can sound breathtaking on them. Dt770 has a similar level of top end but is balanced out by the bass. The DT1170 is a posh DT770. My feeling is that Hifi geezers will turn their noses up, but in all honesty, I couldn't care less!! If they sound like music to my ears, then I'm happy no matter what the snobs say. (there are no snobs on here though before anyone asks!!!!) The real secret with the DT770 is to (once again) get the volume right for the mids and if the treble is too lively, back off a fraction. When you get the volume right, they sing. The DT1170 is like an opera singer by comparison. Still hefty bass but maybe a little more balanced but for me, the sense of space inside those cups was lovely. I am SO tempted to buy one actually. I might wait to see if the price drops though since they're around the £400 mark at the moment. Funnily enough, I've been playing around with an Edifier portable headphone which is basically a copy of a headphone you might not know ... The PJB H-850. I got the Edifier because I instantly recognised it as the PJB. Then, because I've stopped performing, I couldn't find the blasted PJB. Well I've found it now. (Left in a work place) Sound is kind of similar to the DT770 with raised bass but not quite as steely treble. Now that one is used by 'pit' musicians because it's light on the head, can be played loud with reduced treble and takes quite a lot of power into the drivers with no harm. Again, excellent for monitoring live situations while performing in shows, but interestingly, it gets close in sound to the Beyer. They're not particularly expensive, but they are difficult to get hold of I think. I rarely see them mentioned in Hifi circles. Edifier have produced a 'cheaper' version for enthusiasts but the sound sig was surprising in how it has been tuned to kind of sound DT770 like. If you like the DT770, you will LOVE the DT1770. If you find the bass of the DT770 annoying, you'll hate the other one. I think that some don't drive the DT770 properly which is part of that flabby bass problem. The Polaris makes the jump into 'live' sound levels of bass that is really well under control. It doesn't flap about and bleed into the mids in the way that some describe. It's the hardest hitting bass I've heard though and extremely fast on the end of some proper power. Not sure what you use for an amp, but that's the key to taming the bass of the DT770 imo. The Ember and Polaris also don't exacerbate the steely treble so they're both a fantastic match with it. I love the Polaris with it a lot. The amp really gets them under control. It is SUCH a good amplifier in all honesty and amazing value for money given the way that it has that power and all so well controlled as well. Not many amps do that as well that cost more. I'd forgotten about the DT770 I sent to you. That was one of my bulk student buys!!! You'd love the th900 as well. I think it's a great listen as well. That one is more a Hifi persons headphone as long as they like deep fat bass!!
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Deleted
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DT1770
Dec 5, 2015 0:47:55 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 0:47:55 GMT
It's funny Ian I really like my DT770 headphones with all their faults, I don't know what it is with beyer's but I like the sound of them. You and me both Chris! I started off buying the DT 150 because of Ian's review/remarks on it, way back on RG. I'm now the proud owner (and fan-boy) of . . . Beyer-Dynamic DT - 150/250 Beyer-Dynamic DT - 250/250 Beyer-Dynamic DT - 770/250 Pro Beyer-Dynamic DT - 990/250 Pro Beyer-Dynamic Custom-One Pro's (with adjustable bass, and it really works - woo hoo!) I know . . . what a tart
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Rabbit
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DT1770
Dec 5, 2015 8:42:05 GMT
Post by Rabbit on Dec 5, 2015 8:42:05 GMT
Sorry.
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Deleted
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DT1770
Dec 5, 2015 9:56:24 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 9:56:24 GMT
At last! Someone who's impressions of the DT1770 I actually give a damn about. They are now top of my list. Cheers Ian.
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Rabbit
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DT1770
Dec 5, 2015 11:03:04 GMT
Post by Rabbit on Dec 5, 2015 11:03:04 GMT
You have to like bass though Gordon. They hit really hard down low, very similar to dt770 but more defined I think. I'll be getting one eventually, but going to wait to see if there's a price drop.
They're not perfect but no headphone is. I am quite comfortable with the dt150/770/990 sound though, so for me they seem really nice. Build is terrific.
The DT770 pro is a really good buy I only and so many who trust Beyer might not worry about that price, but for me, £400 or so is a kind of barrier with regards to quality verses price. What puts me off is that there isn't a single headphone in the top tier that people don't like something about. While I have no time for the hi fi snobs who say daft things like, 'I couldn't keep it on my head for more than 60 seconds because .......' Or even someone 'claims' that a 5khz spike is 'searing' through their head. To me, that is pure nonsense on the whole. People are not that good at identifying where treble spikes are and if a sound is wearing, turn it down!!!
Even the old V6 works exceedingly well in certain circumstances. I think some get a bee in their bonnet and begin a never ending quest for the perfect headphone, which doesn exist, even at £2000.
This one is a sensible (ish) price. Comfortable as anything. I could wear it all day. Big hearted bass and very extended which kind of balances out the bass. Slightly recessed mids I'd say, but I'm not being funny when I say that I only, that contributes to a sense of 'space' in a closed headphone. The th900 is similar in this respect. Everyone goes on about its terrifying bass, when actually, it's spacious and full sounding. For me, the top can get a bit sharp, but.... Turn down a fraction and it's spot on.
Headphones 'focus' at different volumes but we're all creatures of habit and like to use the same volume on every headphone. Get the focus right for your own ears and deafness, and you can often reach a stunning sound, way better than what some describe. The Senn hd650 is very easy to focus because of the mids, but they aren't as spacious as the th900. They tend to give a left/right/centre blob and in that respect, aren't quite as cohesive as some other choices. Tonally, they beautiful though. They play better at louder volume I only as well.
The DT1770 is not like the Senn at all. So if you're really tuned in to the Senn sound, you may well find it too big at each end. Start really low volume and slowly ease up for focus and you hit a hot spot, where going back to the Senn reveals that it has its own problems as well. I won't go into the problems that I have with Senns sometimes because it causes too much trouble, and in any case, they are an excellent sounding and measuring headphone.
I can see the Beyer getting criticised by Hifi guys. The bass will cause problems and the u shaped curve. They'll miss the sound width and cohesion in the stereo image, which imo might well be better than the Senn.
Tonally might be a different thing for some though. The Beyers also need an amp that gets a good grip of the bottom end. ie: plenty of power and speed of attack. Perhaps I also need to say that I heard it from some expensive Senn amp so it was an excellent system that drive the DT1770 like butter. I think it was a HDVD 800, which I've never seen before. Wouldn't mind one of them myself either!!
I originally went in to hear an HD800 headphone as well, but wasn't that keen on the top end. I was really curious after Fran's post. Don't think I'll be going for one. Paint job on the body is cheap imo and the sound is well..........
I'd rather have two DT1770s.
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Deleted
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DT1770
Dec 5, 2015 11:18:19 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 11:18:19 GMT
I just really like the look of them Ian. It's not often that headphone styling turns me on but the DT1770's hit all the right buttons. They still have the same problem for me though, namely that they are too difficult to drive.
I was originally intending to take my whole computer rig to Spain with me but the size is just too much to justify so I think I'm just going to leave it to be delivered to France instead. So, I can't live for 4 months in Spain without some music & I'm now looking at filling up my phone with my favourite albums and using it ias the source. I need a decent pair of closed-back headphones but my phone won't drive the DT150's or the DT1770's. I like the sound of my PX 100-II's but they're knackered since I accidentally caught the cable with the hoover. I know, I'm an idiot. The PX 200-II's are supposedly very different in character so I'm struggling to find an alternative.
Still, First World Problems.
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Rabbit
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DT1770
Dec 5, 2015 11:27:47 GMT
Post by Rabbit on Dec 5, 2015 11:27:47 GMT
Edifier h850? It's a copy of a pro headphone used in live/bass work by Phil Jones who designed the old ae1 speakers. Phil Jones makes an h850 but I'm not certain that they're available in this country. They're bass led headphones with a slightly recessed mid, but turn up for mids and you get a close to HD650 experience portable. They are really good value for sound and just before I retired, I was using the 850 for fold back work in shows. I can't get on with the fit or sound of the px200, Gordon. It's fiddly to get a seal and it's comparatively thin sounding up against the px100. You know, you'll miss the headphone after a week. I hate being away without a decent headphone. The Fiio e12 or even better, the 12a is lovely at the price and they can drive surprising loads pretty well. I don't know if you have any MP3 players but the x1 is top notch value with 128gb card in. Total is just over £200 instead of £60 for a px200 but the sound of your Senn or whatever you want to take will be fine. It would then work from phone as well. I filled up 128gb in an evening and regularly take the X1 out with all that music on it. Big FLAC files as well. You are right about the power thing. I think the DT770 (and 1770) needs a bit more than people think and then complain about how flabby the bass is. The Polaris or Ember are a brilliant match. www.amazon.co.uk/Edifier-H850-Over-Ear-Headphones-Black/dp/B0083DPIIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449315195&sr=8-1&keywords=edifier+h850Oh ..... Just found a Phil Jones one available. It's a tad more refined and better matched comes .... www.thomann.de/gb/phil_jones_pjb_h_850.htmThey are both better off with an amp since they have pretty fast drivers for a punchy bass. They will work from a phone as well though. Not quite as sensitive as some portables are.
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Deleted
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DT1770
Dec 5, 2015 13:43:18 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 13:43:18 GMT
I also like the styling of the DT-1770. Quite understated and sleek.
Also like the fact you get a decent case and a couple of cable and pad options. Might bump up the price slightly but I'm sure it works out a lot less than buying separately.
Like most Beyers I do suspect we'll see some decent reductions on these at some point so playing a longer game doesn't seem a bad idea. Was surprised to see them so heavily reduced so soon on Black Friday though (Amazon.com).
One complaint I hear a lot is clamping force and putting some pressure on the top of the scalp (something I hated with the Fidelio L2...that and their sound). How did you find them Ian?
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I guess the dilemma you have just now Gordon is how much money you spend on what is ultimately a stop-gap measure. Spend too little and you might not get something that's much cop and spend more and it's money out of your kitty for your new headphones.
Would you consider IEMs at all? I'm actually really surprised at just how good the Fiio EX-1's Ian recommended sound straight from my mobile. If it was only for a few months I reckon I could just about make do with that pairing...not saying it'd be optimal but good enough for home use to get my 'fix' and great for wearing in the garden or on a walk. They do leak some sound though but VFM is ridiculously good - £ for £ I'm struggling to think of a purchase that's given me better SQ. Just factor is £20 for a 3 month supply of Complys though as I think they improve the low end, tame the highs a touch and make them a very comfortable and non-intrusive feeling IEM.
Alternatively, how did you find your HD650 sounded when paired with your old E18? Seems a relatively inexpensive option for a DAC / amp so perhaps re-buying one offers a decent enough set up for not too much cash.
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Rabbit
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DT1770
Dec 5, 2015 14:08:21 GMT
Post by Rabbit on Dec 5, 2015 14:08:21 GMT
I found them comfortable but I have a lot of hair. They do squeeze but the pads are so large that it doesn't do anything to the ears.
I have to stop talking about them or else, I'll end up buying one!!!!
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Deleted
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DT1770
Dec 5, 2015 14:16:36 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 14:16:36 GMT
That's not so bad. Clamping force doesn't really bother me but pressure on the top of my head I can't handle. The L2 have a rounded solid metal headband (wrapped in thin vinyl) that only makes contact with approx. 1" of the top of the head....after around 15 minutes it felt like someone was pushing a pressure point and I began to feel nauseous. The headband on the DT-1770 looks flat or at least flatter though so should distribute weight better. ps. when is your pair due to arrive?
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Deleted
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DT1770
Dec 5, 2015 14:57:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 14:57:43 GMT
Once you get your DT1770's Ian you could maybe put them out on a tour? I use a Clip+ as a portable and love it but it can't drive the HD 650 properly. Still, I might buy another pair of PX 100-II's and a 128GB card as that will be plenty music for me while we're in Spain. We leave next Sunday so I'm rapidly running out of time. I doubt Thomann would be able to get those headphones to me before then anyway. The E18 worked very well with the HD 650. Not as good as the Ember obviously but not a lot worse if I'm honest. The Bass Boost was very well implemented though. The only reasonm I sold it was because at the time I was using it as a true portable device and when it's coupled with my Samsung Note 3 it was a real brick. Anyway, back on track. I really like the whole package you get with the DT1770. It seems like a lot of thought has went into them. One day.. On the subject of pain; try a pair of AKG Q701's. I'd read many people complaining of pain cause by the bumps in the headband but decided to buy them anyway, thinking it was just folks over-reacting. I was wroong. Truly an instrument of torture. There's also a spike in the FR at 2k which is just hideous. It can be EQ'ed out but not without hollowing out the sound. Awful headphones.
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Deleted
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DT1770
Dec 5, 2015 17:16:46 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 17:16:46 GMT
Didn't have the (mis)fortune of experiencing them myself but found/find the K7XX, K612 Pro & K712 Pro amongst the most comfortable headphones I've owned....all of which have the newer style flat headband. No idea AKG persisted with the bumps for so long. Must have cost them a few sales over the years. Not long now then Gordon. Hope the move goes well and you manage to navigate over / round the Forth without too many delays....I bet looking out the window today and seeing the delightful weather you're starting to have second thoughts
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 18:17:19 GMT
I cannot ****ing wait!
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