Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 1, 2016 21:32:29 GMT
Since retiring, my Beyer DT150 has sat in a box for a year since they were just a tool for me really. Never really took them too seriously as a hifi home headphone.
Following my listening to the Nighthawk, my outlook on what a good headphone sound should be got kind of changed if I'm honest. For instance, you become aware that many headphones have a lift around 2-4khz in order to give the 'impression' of great detail. The NH doesn't do that and if you're unaccustomed to that, it feels slightly restricted and boxed in. On longer listening, the NH is incredibly smooth and does contain a lot of refinement in its sound.
Because the dt150 is also a bit on the dark side, I did do some comparing and there are similarities. Believe it or not, the Beyer is slightly on the brighter and lighter side by comparison.
So today, I have done some extended listening with the Beyer and you know, it does a pretty amazing job. Strong, robust bass and nicely defined. Softer in the treble (although a fraction more presence than the NH) but it is also pretty extended.
The dt150 also has a pretty good sense of space within its sound and reproduces room acoustics pretty nicely. I listened a great deal to orchestral music and it also produces some pretty good detail.
Comparing to the dt770, it seems bland at first and a bit dull. Stick with it and the dt770 seems too brash. Way too much top and a bloaty bass. Just shows how you can adapt.
So it seems, I quite like the dt150 in spite of it looking like a tank. All at a cost of around £95 or so as well. Has to be a pretty good buy and isolation is excellent with them. Earpads give you lots of room and I've been wearing them for hours.
I am used to them though since I have had them for years, but mostly had them eq'd in some way when working, not straight from a hifi.
It gets very little 'press' but has remained with me for what seems like 20 - 30 years I think ......
A bit like in Del boy with Trigger's broom. Every part has been replaced at some time so in fact, it's not the same headphone really ..... Then I replaced it with a new one.
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neo
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Who are you tryin' to get crazy with, ese? Don't you know I'm loco?
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Post by neo on Mar 2, 2016 7:03:35 GMT
I agree. The DT150 is an awesome headphone. I had it and it was magic with the Bottlehead Crack. I had bought mine from France for around 100Euros. Its a bit of an underrated headphone. Nothing of the usual Beyer sound. The DT770 and other new Beyers were always too harsh for me.
It ain't very pretty, but who cares. Tyll Hertsens wrote some bit about it last year and was planning for a full review.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 2, 2016 7:42:57 GMT
Was he? That'll be interesting.
I've had one so long now, that I have taken it for granted as a 'working' headphone. It was the Nighthawk which was lent to me that caused me to pull it out of the box since that's a headphone that is kind of similar in timbre and I needed a reference point.
I spent the day on the the DT150 yesterday and it honestly just melts onto your head as far as its sound goes. After a very short while, I forget that it's a headphone.
I haven't bought one for quite a long time and after some serious listening, I have to admit that it is impressive really and one of those headphones that I have just used and left at work. It does a lot well; in fact it has some qualities that are possibly better than the DT770 with regards to to the extremes, although if you compare, the Dt770 comes out as a bit more 'flashy' sounding.
It's a headphone I've always had but not used as a home headphone. The build is amazing and of course the modular idea is great. The idea that it is easily repaired if you could ever manage to break such a monster.
Many describe it as dark sounding. In comparison to the NH, it's not as dark. It was designed more as a headphone that you can listen loud to and indeed you can. Its voicing is slightly different as a result, which is why perhaps I have never really used it much on hifi gear. Something I have really noticed since using the NH though is that many headphones have a slight lift (I think) between perhaps 2-4 khz which raises their 'presence'. The NH doesn't have this and I don't the the dt150 does either, so with the 'presence' area being slightly less, we perceive it as dark, when in fact, it's pretty extended in the treble without highlighting it. That's also why it sounds less flashy than the dt990 or dt770. They have definite peaks up in the treble. Take those peaks down and they don't sound quite as good either.
Anyway, using the DT150 yesterday prompted me to check its price now. I was staggered that it is less than £100. No wonder so many pros use them. They are very good but a bargain as well.
Pricing with headphones seems all over the place to me, but it's headphones like this that stop me buying so called 'premium' ones. Another that comes to mind is the d2000, which sold at a highish £300 which stopped me getting one at first. However, compared to the even higher th900, I start asking myself just how much more is the th900 worth when thetwo of them are slightly similar in sound actually, but not £600 difference? The arrival of these really high priced headphones has had me thinking more and more about whether they really represent good value for money. Differences seem very subtle and everyone goes on about 'diminishing' returns with more expensive gear, but I sometimes wonder what exactly causes such a big price for these 'diminishing' returns? There's nothing magical inside a headphone and once so many have been sold, they keep that price up there to the bitter end in many cases after development costs have been covered by initial sales.
The dt150 is top of the list for value imo.
I think there are few that give the same kind of value. The hd600 and hd650 come to mind, although they hover around £200; twice the price of the dt150.
Maybe we should be drawing up bargain buys rather than plugging these ultra expensive headphones?
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solderdude
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measureutternutter
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Post by solderdude on May 31, 2016 21:36:46 GMT
I got a DT150 for measuring. Also some DT100 velourspads and used 2 HM5 pads I have lying around. more information HEREThe headphone is built like a tank. In the sense of appearance as well as mechanical. It’s a workhorse with which you probably don’t want to be seen in public.The clamping force is kind of high which is to be expected for usage in a studio. Its cable is long but fortunately not very microphonic. It is connected via a HUGE 6 pin connector which can be secured with a small screw. It terminates in a 3.5mm plug with a 6.3mm goldplated adapter that screws on it. No idea why they would use a 3.5mm TRS plug as it doesn’t pair well with equipment sporting this socket. The pads are of the thick pleather kind and can be changed relatively easy. Also the headband padding can be changed quickly. Handy when many different people use it. In the end its all about the sound. As a monitoring headphone it sounds great. Not really suited to mix on or evaluate the final mix. As hi-fi headphone it isn’t. It does have plenty of bass and sounds a bit ‘thick’ with lots of impact in the bass. Voices sound full yet not blooming. Piano sound quite good with a full bodied sound to it. Most acoustic instruments sound quite realistic abd dynamic. It doesn’t sound pinched-off or compressed but very lifelike and dynamic. The problem area is the treble. It is a bit subdued which is a good thing for a monitoring headphone as they are played a bit louder than hi-fi music would. The treble is extended but doesn’t SOUND like it is extended. Cymbals have an artificial sound to it. Not refined but a bit course. The DT250-250 has a similar problem but feel the DT150 is slightly ‘worse’. It isn’t that obvious with acoustic music, piano recitals and small combos. It does become obvious with pop music which looses some of it’s ‘life’. It sounds plain and a bit boring and ‘darkish’ with unrealistic treble. frequency response of the stock DT150: frequency response of the DT150 with DT100 velours pads: Do these pads turn this headphone in an afforable (around € 150.-) hi-fi headphone ? Well… in tonality it certainly does. Much more realistic sounding. For monitoring and piano etc the pleather pads may be slightly better suited though. The improved impuls response and smooth frequency response (especially in the treble) would indicate that treble quality did improve considerably. Alas … that isn’t the case. yes… it improved and got somewhat better but still the headphone is lacking in finesse and resolution even though the response is flat and well extended. It now is slightly below the DT250-250 in this aspect. Still not a great hi-fi headphone to me… BUT a very tonally accurate headphone with a dynamic and realistic sound. Just lacking somewhat in the treble finesse. Again here most noticeable in pop music and music with lots of instruments. The instruments get ‘smeared’ a little and aren’t as nicely ‘separated’ from each other in these recordings. No real complaints when very few and well recorded music is played.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 31, 2016 21:44:41 GMT
Great article Frans. Pretty much how I feel about it really. It was great for working with.
Wires easily changed. Easy to run on extremely long runs. Non microphonic.
Pads are stiff and easily cleaned. Strong clamp but the pads don't touch your ears so they seal.
Great at loud, performing volumes. Treble rolled off and big bass. Good with eq.
Passes my sit test which is a common occurrence in studios!!
Modular construction - easy to replace parts.
To me, it was always more of a working tool and I always felt a bit disappointed with it at home on Hifi.
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Post by tommo21 on Jun 1, 2016 8:42:53 GMT
I've had my DT-150 for a month and using it at work. I also have the Meze 99 Classics here and been using an AT MSR-7 at times. I love all these headphones and these are all keepers. Need closed cans at work. The DT-150 is currently my favourite. I tried with the velourpads from the DT-100, but didn't like it and went back to the original ones. They're hot but otherwise quite comfortable.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 1, 2016 10:21:45 GMT
I had used the dt150 for possibly more than twenty years as a monitoring headphone when performing. Superb for that, but I did find it comparatively 'crude' sounding in comparison to other 'hifi' headphones at home. Then again, many hifi type headphones sound awful at live volume for monitoring purposes.
They're a real workhorse though.
I can't find the Meze 99 Classic in the UK. Been looking but only signs of the 73 and 66. I'm not sure how they compare to the 99 though, but seen some good things about them.
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Post by tommo21 on Jun 1, 2016 10:46:09 GMT
I can't find the Meze 99 Classic in the UK. Been looking but only signs of the 73 and 66. I'm not sure how they compare to the 99 though, but seen some good things about them. I bought it from the manufacturer in Romania. They sound really good and have a nice deep bass thump and also quite forward mids. Best thing about them is that they sound amazing right out of my phone, but as for portability they're let down by the design, so it's a bit hit and miss. But they are a headphone that I foresee very many happy hours with. I would like them to produce a more portable one though with the same soundquality.
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z3d
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Post by z3d on Jun 1, 2016 21:37:09 GMT
Thank you Frans for your measurement, impressive work as usual Four pads are in the way to Nederlands, I'm quite curious about the differences there! The phone itself was interesting enough for me to having bough it, it seems that once the nasty highs are cured it should be a really good phone for the money!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jun 1, 2016 22:04:10 GMT
I suspect that the treble quality is a driver issue. Listened to it before I measured it and noticed the bassy/full character with slightly coarse treble that appeared to roll off. When I measured it I wasn't surprised.
Then slapped on the velours and was amazed how it measured. I anticipated smooth highs based on what I saw. Played many different songs and kept pressing 'next' for a while because the expected better treble was not there. Finally grabbed the HD662-EVO to check whether I was hearing it wrong.. I wasn't. Also the HM5 pads didn't improve the treble so gave up listening.
It DOES have some appealing qualities to it and understand why many like it. Very good bass and single instruments sound amazingly good. Just not pop and 'busy' music... at least to me. The treble part becomes sort of incoherent. the treble part is not belonging to the individual sounds as it can with hi-fi phones. The treble part sort-off blends together in a less nice sound where the rest of the instrument sounds stay well separated. Hard to explain.
For some the less refined treble may not be an issue or not even hear it the same way. To me its an issue because I really like a dynamic and well extended sound which is 'open' and realistic. Comfort and microphony are also important but can live without those 2 if the sound is what I want. It ticks all boxes for me except treble quality/smoothness and comfort. That last bit can easily be cured by HM5 pads ... leaves the treble quality issue for me.
Of the 20 songs I skipped through none of them I played longer than 10 seconds. Have it on random so aal sorts of recordings ang genres play... Using the HD800 (Kameleon) I rarely skip songs, neither so with the HD662-EVO which isn't a perfect headphone but is enjoyable. With the HD650 (Kameleon) I skip now and then. Had something similar with the ANC7. Skipped too often... which indicated I should look elsewhere for sonic bliss.
So for some people the treble may not need fixing. For me, all boxes must be ticked.
The ETHER came close... only the bass quality box didn't check for me. Bass quality is equally important to me as the other aspects. Don't really care about 'stereo width' which was 'normal' to me. Not artificially wide (HD800) nor narrow (stock HD650)
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jun 4, 2016 14:32:16 GMT
Made some comparative plots of different pads on the DT150. You can download the pdf file HEREbelow the combined plot.
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