dpump
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Post by dpump on Dec 19, 2014 15:21:22 GMT
Remember, the Crack amp is entirely a tube amp-it uses a 12AU7 for the input/driver tube and a 6AS7/6080 for the output tube and is specified for headphones that have an impedance of 250-ohms or higher. The Crack amp does sound nice with HD600/650, HD800, and other high impedance phones, but limits the phones you can use with it.
The Ember is a hybrid amp and uses a 12AU7 (and many other tubes) for the input/driver tube and has a solid state output and can drive phones from 30 to 600-ohms. The Ember is not a traditional all tube amp. The Ember gives you an input tube that gives you tube fullness and some warmth and a solid state output for power and control. The Ember can pretty much do a great job with any phone and doesn't limit the phones you can use. Don't think about the Ember as a traditional tube amp that is overly dark or warm and can only drive certain phones or has a somewhat limited amount of power.
The Polaris is all solid-state but designed to have a little bit of tube smoothness and warmth. The Polaris can also drive most phones from 30-600 ohms. The Polaris is the best buy of the two as it is plug and play and gives you such a great sound for the money.
The Ember is a little more forgiving if the source is not as good and sounds somewhat fuller than the Polaris. The Ember can also be 'tuned' somewhat with different tubes. The Polaris is very slightly more upfront and direct, but doesn't sound harsh at all unless the source is harsh.
Also remember all the other adjustments that both amps have for gain, output impedance, and filters. The sound quality of these two amps was not available a few years ago for this price. A lot of us don't realize how lucky we are to have products like these!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Dec 19, 2014 16:34:54 GMT
If you're concerned about the sound of valves through the HD650, you needn't be. Just because there are valves involved doesn't mean more 'veil'. Valves will add more harmonics, giving the headphone a rich sound with what I describe as a 'rubber band' bass. They tend to sound quite liquidy and fruity!!
However, if this worries you,then the Polaris sounds kind of cleaner. There are less of those harmonics but a 'flavour' of them. I actually like the Polaris a lot. I'm using both but thePolaris is the one I tend to use more. It's kind of halfway between a rich tube sound and a clean ss sound. It's a rich sound and warm, but still very powerful and clean sounding.
I've even used a Little Dot (which blew up on me) with the hd650. Sounded great. The Ember and Polaris are streets ahead.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 23:55:35 GMT
I'm confused by all the adjustability of the G1217 amps. I'm sure having the options is probably a good thing but I'm not sure how I'd use them. I'm also wary of the expense of tube-rolling. I'm unemployed right now and the idea of buying an amp that isn't ideal right out of the box is a bit scary. I'm only ever likely to be using the HD 650 because it seems to suit my needs. I do have a sort of in-built preconception that valves thicken the sound up somewhat, I don't know why. The only valve amplification I've ever heard was when a friend bought a valve amp nearly 30 years ago. It did blow my mind though. I think it was an Acoustic Research and it only put out 8 watts per channel but man, it sounded gorgeous! I think it was Class-A so those 8 watts went pretty far. I also remember sitting on his bed (it was in his bedroom - we still lived with our parents back then) and not needing a heater, lol.
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Post by chinook9 on Dec 20, 2014 15:28:19 GMT
I'm confused by all the adjustability of the G1217 amps. I'm sure having the options is probably a good thing but I'm not sure how I'd use them. I'm also wary of the expense of tube-rolling. I'm unemployed right now and the idea of buying an amp that isn't ideal right out of the box is a bit scary. I'm only ever likely to be using the HD 650 because it seems to suit my needs. I do have a sort of in-built preconception that valves thicken the sound up somewhat, I don't know why. The only valve amplification I've ever heard was when a friend bought a valve amp nearly 30 years ago. It did blow my mind though. I think it was an Acoustic Research and it only put out 8 watts per channel but man, it sounded gorgeous! I think it was Class-A so those 8 watts went pretty far. I also remember sitting on his bed (it was in his bedroom - we still lived with our parents back then) and not needing a heater, lol. I would suggest that you not be concerned about the adjustability (not a word but it works here) of the amps. You just listen to a few of your favorite tunes, make an adjustment and listen to the same tunes again. Choose the sound you like best. It really is that easy. I did this on my Sunrise II. As a result, I leave the input capacitors out of the loop (I could hear a difference.) I change the output resistance on occasion,depending on headphones, but I hear very little difference in the SQ. I consider the adjustments on the Garage 1217 amps an advantage. With amps that do not have adjustments, you're stuck with whats provided. With these amps, the adjustments allow you to tailor the sound to your liking. As far as tubes go, I believe that, after adjusting for sound level, tubes do not sound much different, with the focus on "much." I have 30+ 6 and 12 volt tubes ranging in cost from $2 to $100+ and I could be happy with any of them. For me tubes are a minor consideration. I have owned the HD650 (not my cup of tea, a bit veiled to me) but many, many people love them and indicate that they bloom with power. That said, I don't know of any amps with the power of the Garage1217 amps that can be purchased anywhere close to the price of these amps. Even though I own the Sunrise II, I plan to pick up an Ember in the near future because I want the additional power and the adjustability. Good luck!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Dec 20, 2014 15:57:30 GMT
I find the very same thing with tubes. Very difficult to tell one from another. So I also keep a collection of cheap valves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 19:56:36 GMT
@ Chinook
I'm not concerned about the adjustability (it IS a word, honest) options, just confused. You're right though, better to have the options than not. As much as I have my doubts about valve amplification it's an itch I'm going to have to scratch sooner or later. Everybody & his dog seems to recommend the Crack but that amp isn't particularly flexible and could lead to problems with other headphones if I were ever to switch from the 650. Likewise Schiit. To be honest I get sick of hearing about Schiit anyway. It seems every second member of Head-Fi owns Schiit and I prefer to choose the path less travelled. We'll see what happens after Christmas and if I go back to work.
Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.
Gordon.
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Post by musicman on Dec 23, 2014 2:02:12 GMT
I have used an asus Essense stx sound card modified different things that helped some, then used the output from my pc rca outs to a Harmon Kardon avr 510 and that was a little better. Also running it through an Emotiva xda-2 dac. Then bought the Ember and I can say the sound is much better in scale. The music is fuller, more enjoyable. I am using the 650's also. Tried different settings on the Ember and rolled different tubes in. I can say that this is the most enjoyable music has been since I got rid of my Fischer 400 tube amp years ago. Is it warm, too warm, not warm enough, that is going to depend on what you like. Myself, I would not want to go back to a ss amp, if I ever upgrade from Ember, (every time I consider it I turn up the volume and wonder why would I) I know it would have to be a valve amp. If I go portable I use earbuds and a Cowon J3 amp and it is nice, but no wheres near the Ember and 650's. Just my two cents worth.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Dec 23, 2014 9:12:17 GMT
@ Gordon,
I have an Ember you could try... It would only cost you the shipping charges to do so.... and then you'll know.
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Post by musicman on Dec 23, 2014 14:49:45 GMT
that is a very generous offer solderdude, I was wondering if maybe you had a Ferrari I could try also. Would prefer red of course! Take him up on the offer Zorro it doesn't get any better than that.
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Crispy
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Madrigal music is playing - Voices can faintly be heard, "Please leave this patient undisturbed."
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Post by Crispy on Dec 23, 2014 15:54:46 GMT
that is a very generous offer solderdude, I was wondering if maybe you had a Ferrari I could try also. you can put me down for the Ferrari also Frans Seriously Gordon find the postage money and try it - you won't be disappointed. I was privileged to be the first person to audition this amp and it blew my MF X-Can V2 away without trying. Jeremy's build quality is second to none, if you have not read the reviews, start here with mine. diyah.boards.net/thread/143/project-ember?page=3
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 20:26:34 GMT
@ Musicman & Crispy
Thanks for the input guys, you tipped the balance. Solderdude & I have talked & I'll be giving the Ember a trial run after the holidays. Can't wait.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Dec 23, 2014 20:31:00 GMT
Terrific. You'll hear what we're all going on about then.
Frans, did those Vikings sort it out? That's another flying one isn't it?
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Dec 23, 2014 21:08:59 GMT
@ Musicman & Crispy Thanks for the input guys, you tipped the balance. Solderdude & I have talked & I'll be giving the Ember a trial run after the holidays. Can't wait. looking forward to reading about your impressions.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Dec 23, 2014 22:21:51 GMT
The one I have here was with the Vikings. It went past a lot of ears there and a meet. There is some feedback about the Ember hoved-fi.dk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3501google translate might be your friend here. Them Vikings is good people. Currently the Polaris is on tour there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2014 0:14:19 GMT
I was actually reading up on the Polaris last night. I must admit I'm kinda cynical about valve amps in general. The HD 650's are already fairly warm sounding so going with valves seems a bit like over-egging the pudding, so to speak. I don't know. One of these days I'll hear a valve amp and either become a zealot or denounce them forever. Hi Gordon, I realise you were probably talking about head-amps in particular and my reply references loudspeaker amps, but I think the same improvements I mention could be applied to quality valve head-amps. This was a reply which I forgot to post . . . Hi Gordon, believe me, valve amps have improved out of all recognition from 30 years ago!! Forget the grey, wooly, pipe and slippers sound of the 70's and 80's. Improvements in transformer windings especially, and a general tidying up of signal paths, valve tolerances etc has made a modern, well-made valve amp something special. As long as it's partnered with reasonably sensitive loudspeakers. Although you can buy hugely powerful valve amps, you also need to have hugely deep pockets! I use a Chinese made Shanling STP-80 integrated which uses EL 34 valves in a quality configuration, which introduces no more audible distortion than the pleasant 2nd order which is virtually inherent in valve amps. I feel the most important relationship in hi-fi is between the amp and the speakers. This is where the synergy is most evident. 32 watts hooked into reasonably sensitive speakers in a medium sized room is way loud! And with a valve amp, which is inherently "Class A", there is no switching distortion from transistors. There are very many modern valve designs with attention paid to path layout, quality internal components with point-to-point wiring, and hand-wound transformers, which totally transform the sound. If you hear the phrase valve amp and think warm and wooly, you really do need to hear a modern valve amp! Try Shanling, Icon Audio, Ming Da, Consonance, English Valve Amplifiers, Affordable Valve Company, McIntosh, Audion, Jadis etc, etc, etc Jeff
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