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Post by jhelms on Feb 13, 2017 17:05:40 GMT
PH is thicker sounding - no question, this overshadows some of the aspects I like in the mahogany. Does not make them a bad headphone, just a bit thick sounding to me which overshadows female vocals and makes male vocals a tad to much. The PH does make older recordings much more enjoyable such as 90's music that was recorded a bit thin / lacking bottom end. I love a "fun" sounding headphone personally, but the PH is just a bit much for me and if I go for one or the other, I grab the mahogany in most cases.
The ebony cups in graphs seem to do a lot more things right than either M or PH. I think the TH series is a good enough value that I may give them a try too.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 13, 2017 20:57:48 GMT
First experiments with Kameleon filter are promissing. It responds well to EQ.
I added clarity, kept the bass levels the same but added more 'tightness'. Removed most of the treble peak. Need to tweak a bit more.
Quite impressed with what adding some clarity does for this headphone.
Nice complement to the HD800 which is more a detail whore, this is more 'relaxing'.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 13, 2017 21:12:06 GMT
I am quite convinced that Foster plays with the tuning of the different wood versions. Maybe selected drivers or small changes in driver or baffle tuning is the basis for the differences ?
The wood itself cannot possibly change the amount of ,easured bass. It doesn't vibrate. It is not like the case of a guitar or other instrument. Maybe a slight timbre change could come from different wood types. Willing to bet that if you used one driver and slapped on different wood cups (keeping shape and measurements the same) that they would be indistinguishable.
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jello
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Post by jello on Feb 13, 2017 22:15:10 GMT
I'm not sure. Everything I'd read suggested it was the wood, or the density of the wood, used in the cups that changed the TH-X00s acoustic properties. But perhaps there are other 'tricks' employed under the hood that do the real tuning job.
One thing that surprises me is the differences in cup weight:
Mahogany 30g Purpleheart 50g Ebony 80g
This is per cup so on the head the ebony are 100g heavier than the mahogany, which is quite a difference.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 14, 2017 20:01:59 GMT
My attempt to create a Kameleon filter has resulted in the frequency response below. stock TH-X00 and via Kameleon The plot is smoothed so the peaks and dips in the treble are not so visible. more measurements of the Kameleon module HERENote: the Kameleon module data is NOT yet in the filter-module article. This may take a while as I want to include the T50RP mk3 also which I still have to do. Effect: Tighter bass, more clarity, treble quality improved without 'degrading' the fun qualities of the TH-X00. Due to the driver having some issues above 6kHz (the relatively high peaks and dips and amount of them) the treble is more realistic but still not of super quality. The AQ NightHawk, with a similar driver, had the same issues. The treble is not harsh or peaky, just not super detailed/realistic as some TOTL headphones do. Still, a very nice sounding heaphone which is quite comfortable.
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Post by drumdrym on Feb 15, 2017 0:19:09 GMT
Here's a little tome on wood. www.wood-database.com/And I love this article on Banjo Tonewoods. www.deeringbanjos.com/blogs/banjo-buying-tips/9210527-banjo-tone-woodsDo I have any opinions on HP cups...............I wouldn't dare, except to say that we like a nicely figured polished up bit of exotic hardwood any-day to a bland piece of plastic no matter how much bling might adorn it. If I still feel inclined when the weather warms up I just might wander down to the workshop and turn out a cup or two..........!!
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Post by drumdrym on Feb 15, 2017 0:39:42 GMT
Here's a small cup in European Walnut I made 2015 to hold a Toddy Ladle for a Punchbowl Trophy, not a big step from there to HP cups.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 15, 2017 8:24:09 GMT
My old oboe is made from African Blackwood and it is pretty dense. Must be difficult to carve out something like that.
I was surprised that my D2000 doesn't have a gasket at the joining point to seal it good and proper!!
I love the look of wooden cups, but not sure that there's enough energy in there to actually vibrate it enough to change the sound. If anything, I think I'd be tempted to fully insulate the inside with sorbethane so that reflections are really minimised.
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juke
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Post by juke on Feb 15, 2017 10:24:39 GMT
When your curling trophy first scrolled up the screen I thought you'd built yourself a valve amp Alan! Beautiful work as usual.
I read about purpleheart and ebony yesterday and they're noted as liable to tear when worked, I guess you encounter that
alot when you're turning wood?
Syd
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Post by drumdrym on Feb 15, 2017 11:58:40 GMT
Hi Syd, unfortunately I don't have a lathe, but there are other ways to get to the cup shape just require a little more effort. I've never worked with Ebony other than as stringing and that only once, purchased as ready cut strips. What I would do is find a nicely figured wood and dye/stain it to the colour required, which is what now happens if I'm using a black inlay, not often. Musical instruments made from wood certainly do have their own characteristics dependent on the type/species used. Here is a link to an interesting article, "The Influence of Wood on Tone". www.aswltd.com/chresto90jun.htmI do expect though that with regard to HP's with wooden cups most people will be attracted to them through a love of the organic nature look and feel of wood. As Frans has said though it's very unlikely that one could distinguish a difference in sound between any of the woods used by Fostex in the context of HP cups. Ian's Blackwood is one of the densest woods available. All that said my interest in making a few cups has been stirred.
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juke
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Post by juke on Feb 15, 2017 12:29:19 GMT
I hadn't heard of blackwood but then I hadn't heard of purpleheart either That bowl is fantastic especially as it hasn't been turned. Take a look at the price of wooden cups on ebay, could be a nice little earner, if you could fit it in around all your other activities.... I came across some graphs on either Massdrop or Headfi yesterday that showed a difference between the the three cups they have offered. Naturally mine seems to be the worst. They're due to arrive today, looking forward to seeing this purpleheart in reality. Syd
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 15, 2017 17:45:24 GMT
The differences in that plot appear bigger than they are in reality. I took the liberty to re-allign the 3 plots Jude made. Yes, the purple heart has been tuned quite differently. More in the direction of the TH900. The goal for the Mahogany was to make a cheaper woody headphone with less bass and above all less treble peak compared to the TH900. The Ebony version came later and has less of the upper midrange dip and seems the most desirable one when it comes to neutrality. The purple heart version obviously has a different tuning because there is about 5dB more bass (which is a lot but not the suggested +10dB in Judes plot). It also has a deeper dip around 3-4kHz, like the Mahogany version. Can be corrected with the Kameleon, will make a filter based on the Mahogany version but with 5dB reduced below 500Hz.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 15, 2017 18:03:31 GMT
I tried to find out where the L-R differences came from in my TH-X00. Opened the cups up and had a good look around. L and R were the same inside. I took the liberty of installing some felt inside the cups to dampen reflections. This cannot be seen in the frequency plots but was visible in the step plots. The reflection peak at around 100us seemed slightly smaller in width. The difference between L and R became smaller when I swapped the L and R pad. One of them is slightly different in shape near the front. Maybe that made the difference. As it is now (via Kameleon)
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juke
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Post by juke on Feb 15, 2017 18:12:05 GMT
Good to know you can do a bit more for the PH Frans.
Unfortunately mine arrived and have been returned already. They are beautiful 'phones as you said but this pair had several light scratches in the lacquer which would have polished out but another score had actually made a line in the wood though without cutting through the lacquer which was just scratched a bit deeper than the others. Unfixable. There were also three 'dot' marks in the lacqer and to cap it all the affected cup wasn't correctly mounted in the frame. I was tempted to keep them but as this is one pair I intend to use as an ornament (that only I will see)as well as useful 'phones I didn't weaken. I thought there was a chance the cup had been taken off then replaced (badly) for a reason.
So the search is on for another pair.
Syd
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juke
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Post by juke on Feb 18, 2017 16:54:07 GMT
I bought the other pair that was for sale on eBay. I mailed him and asked if the 'phones really were pristine and he assured me they normally sat their box as his main 'phones are Sonys (that I hadn't really heard of). Looked them up- Ā£2k. He sent them RM SD at no extra charge, got them this morning and they are as new, beautiful finish. These have the lead shortened and the extra length supplied. The mod has been carried out very professionally and I'm glad I took a chance. These are really for next month's looming birthday and will now be confiscated. Gives Frans time to publish his recipe for a filter These 'phones are so easily driven that at first I thought they sounded awful, using a Kameleon 1 with flat gain module. I remembered Frans said they could be easily driven by poratble gear so tried them on my iPhone and they were great. Syd
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