oldson
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Post by oldson on Apr 26, 2017 18:04:38 GMT
this caught my eye on hf earlier................................. www.head-fi.org/t/839638/ifi-audio-igalvanic3-0-the-holy-grail-of-audiono pricing info yet but i feel like this company is beginning to take the p1ss out of the industry with this. as you know i am not technically astute in this field so rely on the sensible folks on here to rein me back in. will someone please confirm this is , as i suspect, nothing more than a money spinning swindle of peoples money???
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 26, 2017 18:55:39 GMT
I'd also be interested in Frans' opinion on this....
Sent from my GT-I9505 using proboards
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 26, 2017 19:48:02 GMT
My guess is the aim is to lower the noise floor and have no interaction between digital and analogue sides of the amp/dac. Might be academic though given the quietness of amps now and I bet we have to pay a lot for it.
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jello
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Post by jello on Apr 26, 2017 20:08:10 GMT
There is always something about the way iFi market things that makes me think they are selling snake oil. I think it's all the daft diagrams, pictures of fighter planes and talk of using military tech found in radar systems!! Don't get me wrong. I'm sure a lot of detailed research and work has gone into this and the improvements very real. At least in terms of being able to measure them, but I do wonder if we are now at the point where our ears are the limiting factor and we are fixing things that don't really manifest themselves in the audible realm? £449 seems a fair price for a product I didn't know I even needed until today. But if Frans says I need one, I'll buy one
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 26, 2017 21:06:58 GMT
Well, if everyone else gets one, I'll have to as well.
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jello
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Post by jello on Apr 26, 2017 21:47:57 GMT
Peasant.... I'm waiting for the black SE version
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 27, 2017 12:42:51 GMT
Well if you really want isolation from a PC and would like USB 3.0 speeds then there is little choice. USB 3.0 is not needed for audio.
The whole reclocking and regeneration and rebalancing is utter nonsense and caching in on the many devices all trying to eat from the audiofool's wallets.
Except for some very early USB DAC's most of them work with their own internal clock and have some kind of buffer internally so don't have problems with small speed issues or signal quality losses. Of course some people use multiple of these type of devices in their chain and very expensive USB cables and claim the usual improvements that seem to apply to all tweaks: Better bass, more extension, tighter bass, more analog sound, smoother, hardness of sound removed, less digititis, less listening fatique ... etc. The same thing they hear when using a new mains cable or when having changed a fuse to an audiophile one or have placed some infinity stones in the room or something. Other discerning listeners always hear similar improvements so it must actually do something is their reasoning.
I can go along with groundloop noises and/or poorly grounded PC's connected to audio equipment and having weird sound issues or other problems. The 'clean power' only becomes clean when the ground also is isolated. Isolation per definition requires a second power supply and its easy to make a clean one. The ifi one has lower noise levels but ALL USB DAC's filter their own DC inputs anyway.
Haven't seen any conclusive proof of objectively improved audio performance. Yes, there are some measurements around that appear to show some improvements in noise floors here and there BUT system A differs from system B so what works for DAC A may not work for DAC B and v.v. Even when using the exact same laptop and software + DAC but in different surroundings but with different equipment connected or at another location that measured influence can differ substantially.
And yes... when looking at the eyepattern (the electrical transmitted USB signal or SPDIF/AES-EBU) one can clearly see improvements there. That doesn't mean there must be / are changes in the actual DAC chip analog output signals as well. These signals aren't directly coupled and takes quite a few clockcycles to appear at the output. That 'improved' signal exists way before the actual DAC will be converting to analog by which time it has already been de-jittered, re-clocked, stored and processed, passed through many taps of filters etc. in the DAC circuitery itself already. The 'link/relation' between the USB signal (and its clock) and the actual internal clock has thus been 'severed' already.
Then there is all the talk of the groundplane having 'garbage' on it. Funny thing is that when there is 'garbage' on the ground plane it is ALSO present in the same amplitude on the power rails and the datalines. This is called 'common mode noise' and doesn't influence decision levels and sound. It COULD be causing problems with connected gear in combination with groundloops though.
For those rare conditions isolation COULD be a solution. Reclocking-rebalancing-regeneration and clean power supplies do not do anything in that case anyway.
But as with all things in audio.... IF you feel/know there is a worthwhile improvement in the sound and it is worth the investment then I have no problems with the device. Not with any device for that matter. Just saying I would rather buy something that really changes sound ... another headphone.
The queste for optimal sound and wondering whether or not gadget A would work as well for you as it does for person B and C that rate it very high will always be nagging. Just not for me...
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 27, 2017 13:14:59 GMT
Thank goodness for that. You've saved me a lot of money Frans!!
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 27, 2017 13:23:08 GMT
At a 10th of the price I could consider it but at £449 no way Jose. USB 2.0 can deal with DSD1024 without hiccup let alone DSD512 or lower... I got an I2S isolator between my PC and my old DAC and it did improve things as I seem to have some ground loop in my PC, measured SNR went from 102dB to something like 106dB IIRC. It cost me around 10€ in parts including shipping.
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jello
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Post by jello on Apr 27, 2017 22:28:23 GMT
Thank goodness for that. You've saved me a lot of money Frans!! No, no. I think what Frans was trying to say is that we should buy two or three and daisy chain them for maximum benefit At a 10th of the price I could consider it but at £449 no way Jose. USB 2.0 can deal with DSD1024 without hiccup let alone DSD512 or lower... I got an I2S isolator between my PC and my old DAC and it did improve things as I seem to have some ground loop in my PC, measured SNR went from 102dB to something like 106dB IIRC. It cost me around 10€ in parts including shipping. Sorry Javier. £449 is not the price. I was just making a wild guess based on pricing of many of their products being in the £400-500 bracket. The actual price according to a post by the iFi rep on HF is $299 USD + tax. So 350 Euros / £300 GBP perhaps? Still seems an awful lot of money to pay for something that might not offer any audible difference. I think it would be way down my list of priorities. Perhaps a head of cryogenically treated fuses infused with Russ Andrews' D.N.A. but far behind headphones, an amp, DAC, valves, well regulated computer PSU etc. etc.
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 28, 2017 7:45:30 GMT
At 50€ I'd get one, more than that is over my budget and beyond my cost/benefit standard. If they actually included some brain matter of the marketing guys at iFi I might consider it for the benefit to the world.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Apr 28, 2017 18:36:22 GMT
thanks Frans , for confirming my suspicions.
there was a time i would have been taken in by this, so i guess i am learning!
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Apr 28, 2017 18:41:02 GMT
Thank goodness for that. You've saved me a lot of money Frans!! this site has saved me loads in the past few years mate!
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Post by tunkejazz on Apr 28, 2017 19:30:16 GMT
Thank goodness for that. You've saved me a lot of money Frans!! No, no. I think what Frans was trying to say is that we should buy two or three and daisy chain them for maximum benefit xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Apr 28, 2017 19:53:54 GMT
No, no. I think what Frans was trying to say is that we should buy two or three and daisy chain them for maximum benefit xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. i always get the wrong end of the stick, now where did i put my wallet?
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