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Post by lobalwarming on Feb 24, 2018 2:11:43 GMT
Very smart to protect your eyes at those power levels, Frans. The ear bleeding should stop on its own. Probably within a week or two.
I had the misfortune to read a little of that HF TakieStar Shill thread. A not so gentle reminder that most of HF threads are a combo of the neurotic leading the tone deaf. Oh well...if it keeps the multi-billion dollar headphone market in business that's good for the economy. Not our ears, sanity or music, but that's a small price to pay.
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Post by Mr Trev on Feb 25, 2018 17:43:13 GMT
Whachyou talkin bout Lobey…
The number of 5 star Ali-Express reviews is an excellent way to judge the quality of a pair of headphones
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Post by lobalwarming on Feb 25, 2018 22:07:24 GMT
5 stars?! Ali-Express?! Oh my. That's really good. Although I generally like to rate gear by its audio performance, not so much it contribution to astrophysics internet shopping.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 1, 2018 8:38:07 GMT
Well, my 5 Star Ali headphone hasn’t arrived yet and the large amount of snow that we’ve had has probably slowed it down even more!
Ali needs a magic carpet perhaps?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 1, 2018 14:00:04 GMT
It’s just arrive and my beady eyes are wide with surprise!! What a package. First impressions are really good. Better than I thought it would be if I’m honest. I started getting one out of curiosity after seeing Mark’s HF posts and the posts here. Finally, the HF buffoon got me going so I just ordered to see what they were exactly like. So, off the bat .... Wonderful case. Overstated at this price level. Not keen on ‘Takstar’ printed on the cups. I’d prefer it to be smaller. Build is better than I expected from what I had read. Comfort is Sony mdr1a level. Sound is really good. Personally, I find it just a bit light in the bass on setting 1, although there’s less upper bass bleed than on the other two settings. Setting 2 is great with music. It has a bloom but is nice but I’m not sure about spoken word in this setting. Setting 3 is pleasant for perhaps mobile use, but the bleed from the upper bass is worse. Might be good for hefty rock, but awful for voice and inner clarity. So on first listen, I really like them and I think a better option perhaps than the Sony mdr1a. I can’t believe that these are being sold at £46 delivered. Worth buying for sure. I had another look around and these cheaper deals a few and far between. Most are up higher and Tomtop shove a healthy amount of postage on top of the price getting you closer to around £70. I think this one is the older version though which probably accounts for that price. Still sounds good to me though. Probably my lack of hearing in the top end has diminished so the peak doesn’t get to me tbh. Even if it were a fake, it sounds pretty good and if I’m honest, at that price, I expected either a fake or an old one. I still like it though. Ear pad space and bass clarity is better than the Sony mdr1a and the quality of the treble is slightly ‘sweeter’ sounding than the Audio Technica msr7 which sounds comparatively ‘steelier’. My preference for the bass is the middle setting even if there is upper bass bleed. It’s not a lot of the bass creeping up though to me. Maybe just my coconut head and ears, but the middle setting is rather nice. For a shorter cable with iPod control, I swapped the lead for a Senn Momentum lead. Works fine. How dare you write a bad review about the Solderdude!
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jello
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Post by jello on Mar 1, 2018 19:02:12 GMT
The P82 may have shed this mortal (voice) coil but the hard case remains. I use it to hide my secret stash of After Eights from the kids!! Good to hear your pair arrived safely Ian and that you are enjoying them. It's quite some package. Hard to fault a headphone that offers great comfort (up there with the MDR-1A which was clearly an inspiration) and good sound for less than £50. Unless you are that horrid Solderdude bloke I also felt it stacked up quite favourably with the MDR-1A (quite different sounding though) and the treble seems a bit easier on the ear than the MSR7 judging by your initial thoughts. What makes you think you have the earlier revision? The way they sound, the outer box/bundled cable or perhaps you lived dangerously and ignored 'official' advice by removing the pads* for a sneaky peek at the drivers? (* warning kids. Do not attempt this at home as bad things may happen)
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 1, 2018 19:36:09 GMT
No Mark. I just entered the code and got the same as Frans did. Also, the cable length Frans quoted isn’t the same as mine which is a bit longer.
On the Takstar site, they quote the length of the cable as the same as mine, so I’m assuming that they’ve left the old data up there. It certainly doesn’t look fake to me. (Then again, neither did the original msr7 that I had but I think that was an excellent copy)
I struggled like hell with that msr7 but the Pro82 stood out immediately as being very good. It reminds me in sound, of the old Yamaha headphone I had. Looks like the mdt1a though, but in my opinion, better voiced.
It doesn’t worry me in the slightest what version it is if I’m honest. The extra peak up top might be better for me and my old ears anyway and according to Frans graph, the old ones have a slight raise in the bass, so that suits me.
You know, with headphones, I’ve kind of moved on with my likes and dislikes. I certainly won’t be paying another £1000 for one although I still love the th900. For me, other factors have become just as important as sound. I used to focus entirely on sound but nowadays, I feel that the all round package is more important. Things like build, quality of pads, room for your ears, comfort and of course the sound. The ultimate in headphones is no longer a draw for me due to the stupid pricing.
I don’t think an uncomfortable headphone with perfect sound is the way to go. I can tolerate wide variances from neutral (up to a point) and I know that my own personal preference is for a raised bass and I’m not too worried if the treble is rolled down a bit.
The Pro82 is more comfortable than the AT and Sony. The Sony has a smaller ear up space and so does the AT. So for me it’s the best for comfort. Soundwise, it’s not as steely as the AT which is lovely, and it isn’t as coloured as the Sony. So again, for me it’s an improvement. Cable is too long so I fixed it. Build might not be as good but it doesn’t look as bad as the descriptions I’ve seen. Looks pretty good actually to me. It’s light as hell on your head which is great for long usage. No hotspots. The case is a stunning addition for travelling protection. Again, ideal for me because I move around. The swimming trunks bag is super for home use.
So it’s a good package even if you get the older version. I accept the Sony sound as good so even if the sound of the Pro82 was a little worse, I could accept it. I’d place it’s sound as excellent in the £46 range and very good in the £80 range. Value for money, like their microphones is excellent.
So I don’t regret getting it at all. I think this will be used a lot because it’s light and more convenient but has a great sound.
I have no idea why they say the number is ‘out of date’. It might be that they no longer guarantee them being older? I have written to Takstar and asked what is going on. I don’t think it’s a fake. It sounds too good.
I might do a video perhaps featuring the m100, mdr1a, msr7 and the Pro82. They all feature different things. I also have a liking for the m100 and it’s huge bass. It has this weird system where the bass doesn’t kick in until a certain level of bass is sent out. Rather unusual but very pleasant for mobile.
So in terms of bass ... (highest to lowest)
M100 - mdr1a - Pro82 - msr7
Treble -
Msr7 - Pro82 - mdr1a - m100
Mids -
Pro82 - m100 - msr7 - mdr1a (although this one is close and difficult)
Comfort -
Pro82 - mdr1a - msr7 - m100 (although the bottom two are more of a tie for me)
Isolation of them all is pretty good.
So if you want a good sound and want to listen for long periods, which one? (Depending on your preferred sound?)
It’s quite complex really and not just that perfect sound at this price level.
But add to that £46 with a box and bag and the choice becomes even easier imo. It’s kind of a no brainier.
The only people interested in the others might be curious about them like I was and just wanted to hear them but in all honesty, the Pro82 is a no brainer I think. Even at £80.
Takstar microphones are similar. Really cheap, but work well for what they are designed for. (Noisy environments with directional properties) They hiss a bit which doesn’t matter in a noisy environment and their directional pickups are very good. As studio mics, they’re crap but as video mics, they’re great!! They do the job they’re designed for well at a very low price as well. Their on camera mic is only about £25!!!
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Post by Mr Trev on Mar 1, 2018 22:37:00 GMT
So you actually drank the Takstar Kool-aid, or did you just get blinded by all those review stars Funny thing is if HF guy really did block you, he'll never get to read your claims they don't suck. Not that you did claim they suck or anything, in fact IIRC you've actually had a fairly positive outlook towards them. Then again, I also didn't read Frans' review as a declaration of war against Takstar either, so what do I know I do hope you can finally get an answer back about the code deal. Mostly curiosity at this point now. I still think if I was going to get a pair I'd wait for supply issues to sort themselves out. I'm kind of funny when it comes to having the latest revisions (except for the ifi ione I'm looking into. I don't give a rat's ass about bluetooth so I'd much rather have an early version with the proper metal faceplates) By the way, I think you mentioned got yours for roughly the same price as a PortaPro? Why in gods name do you guys have to pay that much? I think I can grab a pair for ~$50 CAD off Amazon right now
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 2, 2018 6:00:24 GMT
To me they are decent headphones with a good tonal balance. Quite comfortable and they look good. Good for the price.
To me they are not headphones that are world beaters in all departments. They are somewhat lacking in smaller details and nuances. This isn't something of concern to most people but is a let down for me. The headphone probably costs $ 10.- to make.
It's those blokes at HF that portrayed me as someone saying it is crap.
the low power rating makes it suitable for portable usage, along with the bass boost and it being closed and comfortable. Not really suited for studios for that reason and would watch out with powerful headphone amps.
Soundwise they are good for the money, for audiophiles they are decent but lack in finesse. I read at HF that he heard small details he never heard before and thus I was talking trash. You can do that with any headphone by just listening louder to your new headphones and has nothing to do with what I meant. On direct comparison both versions were just lacking in detail retrieval COMPARED to better headphones. That does not mean you cannot hear details... it just lacks compared to better drivers.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 2, 2018 8:44:19 GMT
So you actually drank the Takstar Kool-aid, or did you just get blinded by all those review stars Funny thing is if HF guy really did block you, he'll never get to read your claims they don't suck. Not that you did claim they suck or anything, in fact IIRC you've actually had a fairly positive outlook towards them. Then again, I also didn't read Frans' review as a declaration of war against Takstar either, so what do I know I do hope you can finally get an answer back about the code deal. Mostly curiosity at this point now. I still think if I was going to get a pair I'd wait for supply issues to sort themselves out. I'm kind of funny when it comes to having the latest revisions (except for the ifi ione I'm looking into. I don't give a rat's ass about bluetooth so I'd much rather have an early version with the proper metal faceplates) By the way, I think you mentioned got yours for roughly the same price as a PortaPro? Why in gods name do you guys have to pay that much? I think I can grab a pair for ~$50 CAD off Amazon right now The Takstar is decent. Not the bees knees and Frans is (as usual) right in what he says. The HF bloke has been a bit of an idiot I think. He wasn’t really taking in what I was saying and took my attacks on him as an insult to Takstar when in reality, I was attacking him for his insulting comments with regards to Frans. There is no need to put people down the way he did. Same happened somewhere else so I did the same. (But let’s not go there!!) Fact is, I really don’t care what these people say about me and have no ego to be damaged by their stupidities. In the end, they get nasty or whatever, but it has no real effect on me and others know exactly what I’m getting at when they read what I say. Just because someone doesn’t like it shouldn’t mean a war. I certainly couldn’t care less if I’m blocked or banned either. It’s really not important to me. So he got me totally wrong and tried talking down to me as well. I’m not the kind of bloke to back down (unfortunately for some readers!) even if they try to make me look stupid. Others see past it. Probably, the code thing is to do with a sneaky update that they don’t want to let out because they’ve been busy getting rid of all the old ones. Or maybe, they ran out of a particular driver stock and had to change? It might be really simple I think. Frans just spotted it, that’s all. (He always does) Portapros sell over here for around £45 if they’re to be trusted. Too many fakes. I was so neurotic about it that Frans got me one from a proper company over in Holland!! So I paid the same for the Takstar and at that price, I got a fantastic deal for the sound. I’m not claiming that it’s an hd800s or a detail retrieval type headphone. Tonally, it is rather lovely but we all know, headphones come with their own foibles and there’s no need for ‘fanboyism’ over a headphone. I think I’m more a ‘price’ and how it relates to sound type of person and how easy they feel on your ears. Perhaps I’ve changed since retiring because in those days, I used headphones to work and they served a purpose more than sitting around with them on for pleasure. I don’t know. In comparison to other £45 headphones they are excellent. I think at their more ‘normal’ £80, they’re still good I’m not desperate enough to pay £80 for another headphone that I don’t really need. For me, it was curiosity because of what happened to Mark for no reason at all. I still like things like the Momentum, mdr1a, msr7 or the m100 but they all still come with their ‘flaws’, even at £200 for some of them. I recognise their ‘flaws’ though and don’t take exception to anyone telling me what they are like that bloke did on HF. He stuck his fingers in his ears and looked the other way even though I invited him to come here and discuss it with Frans rather than fire off nonsense. I think his ego is getting in the way.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 2, 2018 8:59:06 GMT
To me they are decent headphones with a good tonal balance. Quite comfortable and they look good. Good for the price. To me they are not headphones that are world beaters in all departments. They are somewhat lacking in smaller details and nuances. This isn't something of concern to most people but is a let down for me. The headphone probably costs $ 10.- to make. It's those blokes at HF that portrayed me as someone saying it is crap. the low power rating makes it suitable for portable usage, along with the bass boost and it being closed and comfortable. Not really suited for studios for that reason and would watch out with powerful headphone amps. Soundwise they are good for the money, for audiophiles they are decent but lack in finesse. I read at HF that he heard small details he never heard before and thus I was talking trash. You can do that with any headphone by just listening louder to your new headphones and has nothing to do with what I meant. On direct comparison both versions were just lacking in detail retrieval COMPARED to better headphones. That does not mean you cannot hear details... it just lacks compared to better drivers. I think you’re absolutely right Frans. The power rating thing instantly puts it into portable usage in my eyes. I was surprised how low it is. These are no mini speaker type cans for studio desks. That’s why the dt150 was used quite extensively in studios and still are. They are mini speakers and modular in build. Not the best headphone but built for the job. They had to be eq’d because their coils are so robust that treble would seem dull on Hi-Fi. That’s how I heard and regarded them. I think it’s that Dutch ‘truth’ thing. You point out everything with razor sharpness and fans don’t like it. Many obsess over some measurement as though it’s destroyed their beloved headphone, so if you mention say, ‘ringing’, that must mean the headphone is crap. Have you read the other nonsense about how they ‘scale’ with an amp. Oh please ....... Where do these people read this stuff? I’ve been told to break them in for between 5 and 10 hours. Total bull. I see why fanboys get upset, but I can’t agree with what they do - look the other way and criticise the messenger. I know absolutely that you have no agenda and you just say it as it is, just like most Dutch people do! To me, it’s sometimes very funny but others hate the truth!! They kind of want you to state the truth and then and a ‘but’ to excuse the truth. That book about the Dutch that you recommended to me gave me a very much deeper understanding Frans. Don’t worry about it. (I know you don’t anyway) but I can’t sit watching some fool trash and criticise with no one challenging. I can’t do what you do. I’m not built that way as you well know. (And let me know sometimes!!) You sometimes make me think of ‘Mother Hen’ Probably because my work made me challenge a lot of people for survival for so long. I just can’t leave them to be left unchallenged and see it as unfair. It would have been different if he had come on here to discuss it but he won’t and we all know why......
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myrra
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Post by myrra on Mar 2, 2018 9:47:32 GMT
To me they are decent headphones with a good tonal balance. Quite comfortable and they look good. Good for the price. To me they are not headphones that are world beaters in all departments. They are somewhat lacking in smaller details and nuances. This isn't something of concern to most people but is a let down for me. The headphone probably costs $ 10.- to make. It's those blokes at HF that portrayed me as someone saying it is crap. the low power rating makes it suitable for portable usage, along with the bass boost and it being closed and comfortable. Not really suited for studios for that reason and would watch out with powerful headphone amps. Soundwise they are good for the money, for audiophiles they are decent but lack in finesse. I read at HF that he heard small details he never heard before and thus I was talking trash. You can do that with any headphone by just listening louder to your new headphones and has nothing to do with what I meant. On direct comparison both versions were just lacking in detail retrieval COMPARED to better headphones. That does not mean you cannot hear details... it just lacks compared to better drivers. This is exactly what I was looking for giving 80$ limit I'd stated for a pair of new office headphones. I was expecting some lack of details you want once you "taste" better drivers, but was surprised by the rest of sound. I love when equipment doesn't get in the way I enjoy the music (and any art in general), that's what I call "neutral". They are pretty neutral in that regard and unobtrusive once I'm working, comfortable too. If I want to enjoy music late evening for a free hour or so when family is sleeping I grab DT-1350. But they are not bearable for working hours, not that comfortable and all that details are disturbing me. Pro 82 are not that good but still good enough so I don't curse upon my buying decision like I did many times before. BTW, I still had Porta Pro 2000 in my drawer, do you want to measure them for the sake of history? They are pretty rare and no info on the internet. I used them with my Sony walkman years ago and was happy with them. Don't use them anymore, they don't fit new equipment and sadely they are too fragile, the headband broke several times, it might broke again once you try them. I suspect during last repair the service replaced the drivers also I have no use for them and you can keep them.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 2, 2018 11:47:49 GMT
That’s interesting. I wonder whether the Portapro has evolved?
I absolutely agree about the Takstar. Not a ‘detail’ magnet but beautiful tonally. That’s what I enjoyed from the off. Straight away, it felt good. Actually, I like bass setting 1 for orchestral/acoustic/folk and setting 2 for rock type stuff. For jazz I hover between the two!
The other place has got a bit carried away with itself and I can’t believe that some actually think it comes up to a th900. I have a th900 here and it doesn’t, but then again a £46 headphone up against a £1000 one surely must show up some differences? Yes it does but the Takstar is a great buy. I think the fanboys took anything they thought was negative too personally and actually, Fran’s review isn’t negative at all. He merely points out the figures without getting carried away. Good for him.
I’ve been comparing the Takstar with the other portables I mentioned and actually it does very well. But not up against a th900. I think some HF members get a bit too carried away with themselves. There’s certainly one big ego.
Also, you know when looking at headphones we should also take in their intended use. I know Takstar as a company from microphones that they make. There is a shotgun mic for video camera shooting which is very highly regarded for what it is. It’s only £25 and produces a good, sharp sound with very good side rejection. You really need that pickup pattern with video quite a lot in noisy places and the sharpness helps speech cut through as well.
However, as a studio type mic, it’s a no go really. Yes, it works but you will suddenly become aware of high levels of hiss. That hiss is masked in louder environments so for mobile, it’s great. For studio type recording it’s awful. Too sharp and hissy.
So the mic is made for a purpose and they are very good at that.
I feel that the same goes with these headphones. They are designed to be driven by low power sources with good isolation. Bass levels can be adjusted for outdoor presence when mobile and the sharp treble peak also helps cut through outdoors. Detail is less important when moving around.
So for the intended purpose, Frans has got it spot on. It’s a portable headphone. That’s not intended as an insult because that’s what it is. IMO it’s great for that; especially for £46.
However, listening on a big amp at home and comparing it to something better is not so good. Then again, I wouldn’t use a th900 mobile either because it would be useless. Isolation is poor. Lead too long. Too delicate and too big.
So those who took offence at that haven’t a clue what they’re talking about. Frans was perfectly right since it only takes 20mW in any case. That is low .... ie - intended for mobile use ..... and yet people talk about it ‘scaling up’ with an amp? I don’t think so. They just play it louder and think it’s better.
It’s a great portable headphone and that’s about it. It’s not really designed for home use with an amp for Hi-Fi listening, but just like my microphone comparison, people will do this and just make it up. Of course it works fine but we aren’t talking th900 here and those people that say that are just fooling themselves.
I did you, I prefer it personally to the Sony MDR1a. Better sense of clarity and less hampered by bloat. The Sony isn’t great at detail either so they’re on a level.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 2, 2018 21:31:40 GMT
Interesting from an IPod Touch. The headphone out isn’t as good as the digital out into the Ifi. It seems to have more bass ‘presence’ via digital out so I’m guessing that there’s a slight impedance thing going on perhaps?
The iPod Touch headphone out seems weak by comparison, so if you are using an iPhone or iPad to play anything, it might well pay to get a digital out from the Apple into a dac.
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myrra
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Post by myrra on Mar 2, 2018 22:32:18 GMT
Would be nice if somebody is able to explain what's going on. I too have different results from different sources and it's probably not because of impedance. And I don't think it's a placebo effect ;-) For example, Hidizs have almost zero output impedance, Sabaj/Idea and O2 amp also, but results are quite different. I know Hidizs sounds little bit different plugged in as USB DAC and as a player alone, this might be due to the different ground[ing] for amplifier. But this doesn't explain Sabaj and Sabaj+O2 combo - Sabaj alone sounds "thin", with O2 it "has the dynamic and power". Given Pro 82 doesn't need a mountain of power, this is strange... I bought Sabaj since Lenovo sound card annoys me and I had the excuse to buy another DAC ;-) Than again, I realized the sound is good, but without "a punch" and opted for O2 amp. O2 sits on a work desk, Sabaj (tiny enough) is in my laptop case, and I use Hidizs at home as a DAC. But in fact, Sabaj+O2 combo sounds better than Hidizs/Sabaj alone, especially in bass section. I wonder why? I would ask my father who designed and made several speaker amplifiers, but I guess this question is out of reach for him. Any explanation???
Of course, this doesn't mean I won't sleep at night -- I found a setup which suits me and I'm happy. There are many other things to do :-D
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