fanda
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Post by fanda on Oct 19, 2017 14:17:04 GMT
The specs merely say that it is suited to drive headphones with impedances above 16 Ohm. That does not mean the output resistance is 16 Ohms though. Could be anything between 0.1 and 100 Ohm for instance. Thanks. Yeah, the way they state it, the actual output impedance could be anything and if it is high enough, all bets are off. Makes the price even more questionable, doesn't it?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 20, 2017 10:17:23 GMT
The hd660s is shipping out in the UK. A few have been received by people who have also said that they are also being discounted by between 10 - 15% depending which country you’re in.
So they are actually available now.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 24, 2017 19:10:59 GMT
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Post by ronzo56 on Oct 24, 2017 23:38:25 GMT
Hopefully you can get to measure a pair at some point under quieter conditions. But all in all looks like Sennheiser did a nice job on these. I’m going to pass as I will have a Kameleon (finally) for my HD800, so I just don’t see the need for one. Thanks Frans for doing the work and getting some measurements and impressions.
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juke
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Post by juke on Oct 25, 2017 10:11:04 GMT
Nice review of the 660 Frans.
Relieved toward the end to see this 'Is it better than HD800 on Kameleon (or with EQ) ? No, can’t touch it, but the price difference is substantial.'
Using nothing but the desktop Kameleon with the 800 for quite a few hours now I have to say I really like it. I think I'm aware of the better 'tones' and it feels a more integrated sound v HE6.
I also don't feel the need to play it as loud as the HE6 to hear the detail in the music.
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Post by jdcarlson on Oct 25, 2017 15:26:21 GMT
I keep noting people touting specialized headphone amps, particularly for high end 'phones. There is an alternative route if you want balanced cabling. I have Sennheiser HD600s, which most people rate as having very even frequency response, with balanced cables with 4 pin XLR connection. I also have an extra McIntosh MC2205 (200WPC), which has the reputation of even frequency response, although not quite the "punch" of the MC2255 (of which I have four) So, I have wired the Sennheiser 600s up to the 8 ohm tap on the MC2205. I have a "resistor box" with 400 watt 10 ohm resistors in parallel with the HD600s. My theory is that the 10 ohm resistors would bleed enough excess energy off (compared to 300 ohm HD600s) to help protect from over driving the HE600s. To me this is a "heavenly" combination. The detail and definition are outstanding. AND, since the watt meters on the MC2205 never get above 0.2 watts, I know (1) I am not overdriving the HD600s, and (2) I am working in the lowest distortion range of the amp. If you want balanced headphones, and have a good amp around, try this combination. Having said all of that, I am anxious to see further comparisons of the HD660 to determine if it would be a good upgrade from the HD600s. Thanks, Jim
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 25, 2017 17:27:16 GMT
Welcome to the forum Jim,
The MC2205 is not really balanced though. It is still single ended except the common does not connect in the TRS plug but on the chassis ground (com out). Most people believe it has an output transformer which in principle are 'balanced' in output signal. The McIntososh, however, have autoformers. The output of the amp is designed to drive 1.5 Ohm loads and the autoformer (which operates similar to a transformer but is not galvanically separated) allows loads between 1 Ohm and 8 Ohm. The ground connections on the amp (com out) are connected to the signal grounds.
Have you tried the TRS out on this amp ? It is connected before the auto transformer.
The 10 Ohm resistor provides a good load for the autoformer but most likely will still work well with say a 22 Ohm load.
When the output power reads 0.2W the output voltage is about 1.25V = 5mW = 105dB SPL so you aren't overdriving it for sure. The resistors won't protect the headphone at all though. You can still cranck the amp up by accident and have 40V on the 8 Ohm tap. In 300 Ohm this is still a whopping 5W while the driver's max rating = 0.5W.
When you want to protect the headphone against accidental overload the best way would be to use the 1 Ohm output tap (loaded with the 10 Ohm so as to load the amplifier somewhat) The max. output voltage will be around 15V which is 0.6W which is not problematic. Also you get better volpot travel and less amplifier noise as a bonus. Distortion may be slightly higher when playing really loud ... and I mean really, really loud.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Nov 1, 2017 7:31:04 GMT
It looks like the hd650 might be discontinued. A guy on HF wrote to them and asked and they replied that it would be going but the hd600 would stay.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Nov 1, 2017 8:50:27 GMT
The rep I spoke to says it will be alongside the HD660S. Just like the HD800 and HD800S are sold side by side. Sales of the HD650 were still good so they had no plans to discontinue. That's what I was told.
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Post by darkarn on Nov 1, 2017 17:32:33 GMT
Perhaps different marketing decisions for different regions?
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Post by darkarn on Nov 24, 2017 12:32:31 GMT
The HD660S is out in Singapore and also the HD650 is no longer sold. The HD600 is still be sold though, at half price of the HD660S
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fanda
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Post by fanda on Nov 24, 2017 14:14:05 GMT
I have seen HD650 go out of stock and back several times over the years (incidentally, it also happened during HD700 launch timeframe). This particular one may be a push by Sennheiser to establish a base for 660S in their lineup.
Discontinuing the 650 permanently would likely be a bad move though, as it is clearly one of their top revenue drivers among full size headphones.
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Post by darkarn on Nov 26, 2017 16:49:23 GMT
I have seen HD650 go out of stock and back several times over the years (incidentally, it also happened during HD700 launch timeframe). This particular one may be a push by Sennheiser to establish a base for 660S in their lineup. Discontinuing the 650 permanently would likely be a bad move though, as it is clearly one of their top revenue drivers among full size headphones. I was told the HD650 was discontinued and replaced by the HD660S to be exact As for my impressions, I just cannot make a good decision: HD600: Excellent price position and very comfortable. But the demo set's cushions (head and ear) are so used that they are unusually squishy, making it hard to assess it fully. Soundstage is surprisingly better though HD660S: Felt stiff but then again, it is literally barely a week old. Trebles felt cleaner but also more forced/artificial sounding. Separation is definitely better. Too bad they do not have its balanced cables for testing purposes. It is just slightly easier to drive, not a day and night difference in this context unlike what is being implied on paper. It being twice as expensive put me off too I am siding more towards the HD600, too bad I just do not have the funds to get it at its Black Friday prices (needed it elsewhere and besides my other headphones are still doing fine)! Perhaps I will get it during CanJam 2018 Singapore?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Nov 26, 2017 17:20:10 GMT
The HD650 is still listed on the Sennheiser website. Possibly in Singapore the importer stopped carrying it ?
I was told the HD660S is just an addition and not a replacement of the HD650. Similar to the HD800S not replacing the HD800.
The HD650 is still one of their bestselling headphones. It would be a daft decision to stop making it. Also the HD6XX from Massdrop is still going strong which is HD650 with a different paint job and cable.
I would get the HD600 and a set of new (original) pads if I were in your shoes. Yes, these are expensive but the 'alternatives' change the sound, and never to the better. The new pads will feel similar to the HD660S pads though and you will loose some bass with newer pads.
For my HD650 I love the softer old pads though.
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Post by darkarn on Nov 26, 2017 17:27:47 GMT
The HD650 is still listed on the Sennheiser website. Possibly in Singapore the importer stopped carrying it ? I was told the HD660S is just an addition and not a replacement of the HD650. Similar to the HD800S not replacing the HD800. The HD650 is still one of their bestselling headphones. It would be a daft decision to stop making it. Also the HD6XX from Massdrop is still going strong which is HD650 with a different paint job and cable. I would get the HD600 and a set of new (original) pads if I were in your shoes. Yes, these are expensive but the 'alternatives' change the sound, and never to the better. The new pads will feel similar to the HD660S pads though and you will loose some bass with newer pads. For my HD650 I love the softer old pads though. You are right, the HD 650 is still on Sennheiser Asia' website. I think it may be due to the distributor over here. I still find it strange that the HD 660S is said to be a replacement of the HD 650; it felt too different to be considered one The HD 600 sold here will be a new set (unless you buy it from 2nd hand sellers) though, not sure why would I want to get another set of new pads if they do already come with the original pads
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