juke
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Post by juke on Oct 16, 2017 12:40:39 GMT
Hi Frans
I have the new 800 now and the filter made and in use with the Kameleon desktop. I wouldn't like to have to keep them as standard!
I haven't had time to start comparisons with other 'phones yet but with the filter in they sound great, just quite different from the HE-6 so might be better for some tracks I have.
When I was building the filter I saw that you referred to some other physical mod but that your filter was still suitable.
Am I right in thinking that your filter means that no other mods are necessary?
Having read through the other 800 and Kameleon threads on here way back you mentioned the possibility that you might design a filter to offer more bass.
Did that ever get designed/sorted?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 16, 2017 13:58:36 GMT
Yes, no other mods are needed.
Sorrodje has made the SDR mod (Super Dupont Resonator) which is based on the resonator in the HD800S but is slightly different in effectiveness. It's a cheap way to remove some of the treble peak. When that peak is lowered people perceive more lows as a result sometimes. In reality only the 6kHz treble peak is lowered a bit. Part of the 'treble plateau' must remain (one should not EQ it completely 'flat') as the detail and placement is partly due to the enhanced treble. The filter leaves a small portion there for this reason.
The higher frequency peak and bass-roll-off remain with just the SDR mod. It requires you having to remove the thin nylon stocking alike dustscreen glued on the driver itself. Not too difficult to do, but should you ever have to return it for repairs the warranty will be void.
Other popular mods are the Anax alike mods which involves removing the thick dustcover and placing various kinds of damping materials around the driver. Some claim it sounds great and others complain. There are variants with different materials. All of which claim improvements over the 'original' mod. Tyll has measured the Anax mod and SDR mod and these plots show the Anax mods make things worse FR wise. The SDR mod takes away some of the treble peak but not as much as the HD800S. That one seems to have different damping in other areas as well.
Personally I am not afraid of applying mods, even irreversible ones to a lot of headphones. For the HD800 I never resorted to it and felt it only needs some tonal correction (EQ). The SDR mod is the only mod I may have applied (or made something closer to the HD800S resonator) if I did not have it covered in the filter.
As the filters are designed now they remove the treble peak (acc to Tylls measurement DIFFERENCES) compared to my own HD800.
To get more bass than neutral you just need to change the value of C5 on the filter (smaller value = more bass) To me, however, this makes it sound a bit more 'fatty' in the bass. Not in a good way as it muddies the sound. That last part doesn't sound good to me but you can try. It is just 1 capacitor that needs to be changed. More bass than measuring neutral on my rig (which means there already is a few dB bass boost calculated in there) I did not find pleasing.
The HE-6 indeed has a different tonal balance and 'density' in the lows. To me the HD800 (on Kam) is more 'delicate' and is easier to pinpoint and disect music. Everything is 'spaced' a bit better and has a slightly 'easier' sound. The HE6 is better at 'conveying' emotions in music. Also, certainly with the filter, the HE6 is tonally a bit more 'correct' on well made recordings.
Each has its place.
They complement each other more than they are different.
You also may have to live with the HD800 (+ Kam) for a while and get used to it before comparing it to the HE6 again. Both are great but in a different way.
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juke
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Post by juke on Oct 18, 2017 9:48:24 GMT
Thanks Frans
I took your advice and set the HE-6 aside for the past two nights and the 800 has started to show what you mean.
Some tracks just sound too 'lively' to me but overall it's a great 'phone the more I listen to it. I get the feeling that it joins the soundstage up better than the HE-6 which at times seems like there are 'gaps' in the soundstage.
The first track I listened to last night had a sudden bass slam near the start and it was all there in full force and detail in that bass, I don't think I'd even noticed it before.
It seems it would be a good idea to sort playlists that best suit the two 'phones and use them that way, if I could ever get organised.
I don't feel the need to experiment with the bass now at all, the only thing I need to get is a shorter cable, this one's about 3 metres!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 18, 2017 10:09:33 GMT
That cable is horrific. A stiff gardenhose works even better.
Aftermarket cables are quite expensive. Mostly because of the connector.
I still need to mount another socket in my HD800 so I can replace the cable with something shorter, thinner and more subtle.
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juke
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Post by juke on Oct 18, 2017 13:16:20 GMT
I saw these on ebay, don't know if they would be useful:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Replacement-connector-adapter-plug-parts-for-Sennheiser-hd800-hd-800s-headphones/182736417928?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D47230%26meid%3D29cde92822064d5a975d8bde1ab15657%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D182736417928&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%253A25e881b4-b405-11e7-9fef-74dbd180707c%257Cparentrq%253A2f979ccc15f0ac80343fd0cefffe3a0f%257Ciid%253A1 (I'm sure there must be a way to make that shorter).
I can't get my cable unplugged it's so tight.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Oct 18, 2017 17:33:12 GMT
That cable is horrific. A stiff gardenhose works even better. Aftermarket cables are quite expensive. Mostly because of the connector. I still need to mount another socket in my HD800 so I can replace the cable with something shorter, thinner and more subtle. is the stock cable really that bad? have not even got my hd800 yet but i'm already looking for a replacement cable following your comment. what would you consider a sensible price? ive seen some at silly money , nearly £300 . (not for me) i bought a replacement cable for my, now departed, lcd2 from ebay for around £30 and was hoping to do the same for my hd800 but cannot find the seller now. any recommendations would be appreciated.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 18, 2017 18:02:31 GMT
The cheapest way might be to use a nice cable and mount those flea-bay connectors on it. Also found these which are about the same price. Or THESE which look a little better and cost only slightly more. I have no idea about the quality, fit or finish though. Furutech connectors cost 4x more. Cheapest cables I could find was around 100 Euros ! The problem is those pesky Lemo connectors. As most people want an 'upgrade' its all silver or other mumbojumbo cables with high costs. Maybe I will order those fleabay connectors myself as well. I much prefer the HD650 cable (or similar quality) over the stiff HD800 cable.
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juke
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Post by juke on Oct 18, 2017 23:29:34 GMT
Ebay again goo.gl/sC7Jjs for cheap cable. I didn't see it until I ordered a similar one from Amazon, problem is the Amazon one has a rt. angle 3.5 mm plug but it will do until I sort something more permanent, probably with those better plugs you found. It's from London so a couple of days hopefully.
I don't see your plugs on UK ebay.
Biggest issue for me with the stock lead is the length, 1.2 to 1.5m is fine for me as I'm close to the amp, Mk1 Kameleon if I need to sit elsewhere, drives the 800 easily.
Furutech are nice but I doubt if I'd hear any difference. Certainly haven't with Chord and Nordost 'high-end' in the past.
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fanda
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Post by fanda on Oct 19, 2017 12:17:43 GMT
is the stock cable really that bad? have not even got my hd800 yet but i'm already looking for a replacement cable following your comment. what would you consider a sensible price? ive seen some at silly money , nearly £300 . (not for me) i bought a replacement cable for my, now departed, lcd2 from ebay for around £30 and was hoping to do the same for my hd800 but cannot find the seller now. any recommendations would be appreciated. Not 'bad', just less usable. It is somewhat thick and twists around itself making it less flexible compared to the hd650 cable (less thick, much more flexible) or the audeze cable (flat, thin, flexible) for that matter. Still, just use the headphones with the stock cable initially and see if it works for you before ordering replacement cables.
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juke
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Post by juke on Oct 20, 2017 12:24:45 GMT
The new lead arrived today, as I said before it has a right-angled 3.5mm plug but it seems pretty well made. It is very thin, about 2.5mm and a bit springy but well worth the £33 or so, compared to the 'high-end alternatives. I got mine on Amazon but it's on ebay now too goo.gl/a8zJgx
Here's a short link to my one from a UK seller, Amazon, goo.gl/syMSyT
Came in two days. ebay one is Chinese I think
I'm very happy with these, ideal length, sound exactly the same as the original 3m monster.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 20, 2017 16:06:09 GMT
That cable in the last link is for the IE800 (an in ear monitor) The first link is the one that is needed for the HD800
Ordered one as well. Will mount a 6.3mm plug instead of the angled 3.5.
Looks like the pricing for the HD800 is an error though. When you look at other offers of the same guy the exact same cable is advertised for around 100 Euros.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Oct 20, 2017 17:36:47 GMT
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juke
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Post by juke on Oct 20, 2017 18:07:11 GMT
99% Certain, look at his one feedback rating. I would hate to think it's genuine!
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juke
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Post by juke on Oct 20, 2017 18:11:15 GMT
That cable in the last link is for the IE800 (an in ear monitor) The first link is the one that is needed for the HD800 Thinking of ordering one myself as the price difference with those connectors is negligible. Will mount a 6.3mm plug instead of the angled 3.5 Sorry about that, was in the same list arising from my search, shows it's good to get a second opinion<G> I'm fairly sure I saw a straight connector version of mine on ebay yesterday. Maybe...<G> If you do buy and modify I'd be interested to see how you sort it.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Oct 20, 2017 18:13:07 GMT
Syd, is your new cable microphonic at all?
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