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Post by Mr Trev on Jun 25, 2018 16:40:25 GMT
Is it 18:00 CET yet? Are we there yet? Are we? Thinking about getting a pair too? They look like a darn good option, but I can't help but worry about what it'll cost to get 'em across the border - I'm still PO'd over the $80 UPS tried to charge me for that Shanling M2S I ordered
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 25, 2018 19:14:49 GMT
Is it 18:00 CET yet? Are we there yet? Are we? Thinking about getting a pair too? They look like a darn good option, but I can't help but worry about what it'll cost to get 'em across the border - I'm still PO'd over the $80 UPS tried to charge me for that Shanling M2S I ordered My plan was waiting for you to purchase a couple pairs - pay the hideous shipping & customs brokerage - then sell the extra pair at a loss to me. Obviously I need to work up a better pitch for my plan before presenting it to you...oh...wait...
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Post by Mr Trev on Jun 25, 2018 21:05:50 GMT
Actually my plan was to hit you up for a favour, since you guys out on the coast have those trained sea-lions to smuggle goods across the border - our fake oil pipeline to the US keeps getting buried under redtape
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 25, 2018 21:16:23 GMT
That's a great idea! Except all the sea lions know Senns taste like tuna...so the losses during shipment will be near total. Fancy a soggy single 58x driver? Pretty sure this stereo thing is just a marketing fad to allow manufacturers to sell us twice as much stuff!
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Post by Mr Trev on Jun 25, 2018 21:54:48 GMT
Ah, that would be a problem. I was under the impression all the sea lions had become Vegans
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solderdude
Administrator
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Post by solderdude on Jul 4, 2018 18:03:31 GMT
I removed the foam on the driver to give it similar looks as the HD6** And in order to instantly see which cup belongs on my right ear without glasses on made the 'R' red. Below the stock HD58X
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Post by Mr Trev on Jul 5, 2018 16:20:23 GMT
I think you covered it in your write-up, but is there any change in SQ without the foam? I also don't see any green felt on the driver
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jul 5, 2018 20:49:39 GMT
no change insound with or without the foam. The foam is acoustically transparant and there to prevent dust getting into the driver.
The green felt is there... I used a black marker and made it black. Looks really smart this way.
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Post by lobalwarming on Jul 5, 2018 21:01:56 GMT
You scribbled over the magic Irish Leprechaun green felt with a black marker? You style rebel!
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musikl
valued member
Posts: 10
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Post by musikl on Jul 9, 2018 19:19:43 GMT
Hello, Solderdude!
I'm new around here, so I want to thank you for all your excellent articles and wealth of information. I purchased the HD58x based on preliminary reports of something similar to the HD600 but easier to drive. My intended usage is listening to classical and jazz and playing piano through them. Until now, I had a pair of Samson SR850 - also based on your recommendation years ago, and it has served me fantastically, but I though I could go for an upgrade.
First of all a question, then I will follow with some impressions: I can't seem to find any felt around here, but I realize the Superlux foam disc performs similarly well in your measurements, so I wanted to ask - when you say the foam disc, you mean the large disc that is found under the ear-pads? Because I have a pair left from an HD-681 Evo which I removed to make them brighter, as suggested in one of you reviews. Are they similar to the foam discs from the HD681? Would they work? If they are, then I see a further bass decrease, maybe another 1dB compared to the felt, and maybe a little increase the 4 kHz region, which I don't mind.
Now for some of my impressions: The HD58x is significantly better sounding, but there are highs that I heard through the Samsons or powered monitors (Focal Alpha 65) and are almost absent on the HD58x. I power everything through a Steinberg UR22 mk II interface, and, by the way, the HD58x is significantly louder than the SR850 at the same volume level, which I didn't expect, since I was worried I wouldn't get enough power from the interface. Since this is my first pair of "expensive" headphones (I realize they are very affordable by audiophile standards), I expected to be wowed, but I was not. Another thing I was hoping for was a holographic sound presentation, to hear where everything is in the orchestra, to hear the lead singer in front of me when listening to jazz, but the effect is very subtle (almost nonexistent) compared to the Focal Alpha 65, while being significantly better than the SR850 though. And I also wanted to ask - is this an unrealistic expectation? Are there any headphones that have this "phantom center floating in front of you" presentation, like good monitors? I mean to have the feeling of the singer being in front of you, 6-10ft away, in the same room.
Thank you again!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jul 9, 2018 21:37:42 GMT
First of all a question, then I will follow with some impressions: I can't seem to find any felt around here, but I realize the Superlux foam disc performs similarly well in your measurements, so I wanted to ask - when you say the foam disc, you mean the large disc that is found under the ear-pads? Because I have a pair left from an HD-681 Evo which I removed to make them brighter, as suggested in one of you reviews. Are they similar to the foam discs from the HD681? Would they work? If they are, then I see a further bass decrease, maybe another 1dB compared to the felt, and maybe a little increase the 4 kHz region, which I don't mind. Welcome to the forum. I was indeed talking about the foam disc with some cloth on one side. The same as the HD681 foam discs but not the 3mm thick felt disc of the HD681-EVO. I figured not many people have these discs. One could also use the foam discs from AKG. These are only 2 Euro a piece but shipping costs will make them more expensive. I had gotten the stiffened felt from Keith bluemonkeyflyer) many years ago and thought that it would still be available. Searched the web and could still find it. HERE for instance or THIS (can supply the world with that lot) or from WallmartStandard 1mm felt from the craftstore worked well also. When you find it takes away a bit too much you can 'pluck' the felt a bit and 'tune' to the desired tonal balance this way. Now for some of my impressions: The HD58x is significantly better sounding, but there are highs that I heard through the Samsons or powered monitors (Focal Alpha 65) and are almost absent on the HD58x. I power everything through a Steinberg UR22 mk II interface, and, by the way, the HD58x is significantly louder than the SR850 at the same volume level, which I didn't expect, since I was worried I wouldn't get enough power from the interface. Since this is my first pair of "expensive" headphones (I realize they are very affordable by audiophile standards), I expected to be wowed, but I was not. Another thing I was hoping for was a holographic sound presentation, to hear where everything is in the orchestra, to hear the lead singer in front of me when listening to jazz, but the effect is very subtle (almost nonexistent) compared to the Focal Alpha 65, while being significantly better than the SR850 though. And I also wanted to ask - is this an unrealistic expectation? Are there any headphones that have this "phantom center floating in front of you" presentation, like good monitors? I mean to have the feeling of the singer being in front of you, 6-10ft away, in the same room. Thank you again! For getting closer to that kind of experience I always have to grab my (EQ'ed) HD800. These can be found for around E 600.- these days but are still VERY expensive. The HD58X are excellent for the money but by no means exceptional. Just very good value and tonally very nice. A bit tighter HD650's with a different treble presentation. Especially with the hole mod they get closer to my personal preference. That said... stereo width/image is not better than that of the other HD6** range. For this you need Concha activation which means substantially angled drivers a minimal distance away from the ear (HD800 style). In front of you this will also not be the case. Just better 'separated' and more 'pin point' and easier to listen to. I have given up trying to achieve such and just listen to the stereo inside my head instead. There is no substitute for monitors/speakers as both monitors are heard with both ears and room reflections also add to the experience when it come to sound in front of you. For some people crossfeed works for others not. Some people say headtracking software gives you this sensation. Never heard it though.
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Post by lobalwarming on Jul 9, 2018 22:44:01 GMT
I'm not Solderdude, can't even play him on the internet. Like you I have appreciated his efforts at headphone testing and electronic design. Perhaps, like you, I have a background in recording where headphones are considered a necessary evil fed from whatever crappy board or interface that has a token headphone jack. Better headphones, better DAC & tube headphone amp (like a G1217 with a good 6SN7 or 6J5 pair) will help create a bigger, more spacious, 3D presentation - with palatable depth to the soundstage, space between instruments and pinpoint 180° localization. However, without a good binaural recording and/or speaker/room sim DSP won't get the same experience of speakers on phones of a singer 6-10ft away. That said, with a good rig, can achieve a very engaging, wonderfully detailed experience on phones - smaller in scale, sort of like tilt-shift photography, but without the eye strain. As well as upgrading the signal chain, you can train the brain to alter your stereo field perception on phones. Many people complain of the band 'being in the head'. I was one of them. I did a few years of live 2-track classical recordings for a broadcaster using only a few mics, a Nagra and phones. After a year or so, my brain started to compensate. To the point where the entire presentation was outside of my head - sometimes as much as couple feet away - eyes closed. Today, I can 'will' the soundstage out front - not so much will, as allowing the perception to change. Perception is a subtle (often fickle) and powerful thing. A good headphone chain will allow you to effortlessly hear into the music in a way that is pretty much impossible with speakers in most poorly treated rooms. Over the years, I have used all sorts of prosumer recording interfaces - all the low cost ones have pretty horrible headamps. Usually chip amps built to a price point. They work well enough for 'monitoring' - but in my experience present a flat 2D experience compared to dedicated tube headamps. I would suggest you listen to the HD58x a little longer before judging their frequency response. They are much more linear than the SR850 (which are decent - I've used them in the studio as an overdub phone). Once your brain has made the HD58x signature 'normal', you may find that they will actually be much revealing and more enjoyable long term than the SR850s. If you don't want to upgrade the headphone chain...(although you really do, right? ), could play with some crossfeed VST plugins to push the image more center. Crossfeed techniques attempt to simulate the bleed from left/right speakers. HRTF compensation can be helpful too. I put CanOpener or TB Isone on the mixbus when needed. But, if you do decide to dip your ears and wallet into the dark, mysterious audiophile waters....consider a better headphone amp - with tubes. For pure listening enjoyment on a budget, the G1217 Solstice is zero-feedback, class A hybrid tube amp has been one of my better audio investments. I really enjoy the 6SN7 tube family for headphones. Not only is it one of the lowest distortion tubes ever invented, it has an uncanny soundstage presentation on phones. Very open, relaxed sound field that reduces the 'in your head' congestion of many tubes and almost all solid state amps I've used. The Solstice can use the less expensive 12V versions from the 6SN7 family. With a 6SN7 adapter and good Tungsol round plate or Sylvania 6SN7WGT or Brimar, the result is very enjoyable. The National Union or Tungsol 6F8G also offers a large, engaging soundstage. With a twin adapter, a pair of good 6J5Gs can expand the soundstage a some more. The 6J5 is the single plate father of the 6SN7 family. My current low cost headphone rig of Mimby > Solstice (NU 6F8G) > HD650s images better than my studio monitors - when I put my mind to it ;-). Only speakers I enjoy more is properly setup ESLs in a good room. The Solstice is a gateway drug to tube rolling. And it's been a beautiful gateway. Listening to the subtle or obvious differences between tubes is a wonderful way to improve one's listening skills. While enjoying music much more than the flat, fixed SS sound of monotony. Then again, maybe phones will never do it for you compared to speakers. To be fair though, need to (over)spend at least twice as much on your headphone chain as you (mis)spent on the Focal monitors. ;-) My two binaural cents sense.
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Post by lobalwarming on Jul 9, 2018 22:57:49 GMT
I have given up trying to achieve such and just listen to the stereo inside my head instead. Frans...don't give up. Get a low paying recording gig with a broadcaster for a few years. ;-) Funny about the perception of speakers in a room & room reflections. 99% of box speakers in most rooms drive me crazy - it's just a room full of high and low Q resonances where the room reflections mask most of the low level detail. Ugh. Much prefer listening on phones - no added detail-killing room tone and far more linear FR. Guess I'm one of the weird and very lucky ones - don't need 800s, although they present a nice, if overly huge soundfield. 650s or 240DFs, no in-the-head perception - without crossfeed or HRTF comp. Personal perceptions make for the best personal audio perception. Or something. ;-)
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shiro
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Post by shiro on Jul 10, 2018 16:28:33 GMT
Mine arrived today. Tried it for a few hours. Will most likely be selling it (together with most of my other headphones). If you're worried about importing from the USA (I'm in Belgium), this might be interesting for you. Keep an eye on the for sale forum. As for why: I find it unbearably uncomfortable. The pads are the main reason. They are standard foam, not memory foam or gel, and they're very hard. Coupled with the hard clamp (which by itself doesn't bother me much) it squeezes my thin rimmed glasses painfully hard against my ears and temples, and my glasses don't sit well when I wear it. Add to that the pads are not straight but sloped inwards to the driver, reducing space for the ears. Mine touch the pads and I find it extremely irritating. I don't find the cloth on the pads nice either - the stuff on my old 595 is much more comfortable. And then there's the cable. It plugs in at the very bottom, and sticks out a long way. When I turn my head just a little it scrapes the shoulders of my shirt causing microphonics and if I turn it more, I actually need to tilt my head or I get caught on my shoulder. Very silly design, first headphone ever to give me such a problem. All other headphones I have don't have the cable sticking out the bottom that much. Probably my neck's too short for these So the only situation where I could use these would be sitting listening to music with my head held perfectly still, and wearing no glasses (without which I don't see very well). So, this one's not for me I think. Oh, and soundwise it is rather nice. But a headphone I can't wear because it's uncomfortable might sound great, I still won't be using it. So for me comfort comes first.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jul 10, 2018 17:36:10 GMT
The pads are the same ones as on all Sennheisers and will get softer over time. The clampingforce can be adjusted easily (unbearably high out of the box)
yes, the cable entry is indeed on the bottom. After all the design is tens of years old.
Would recommend you lower the clamping force and when you still want to sell it can always increase the force again (so it fits in the box again)
In general I agree the HD6xx series is not the most comfortable but works well for me. Not as comfy as my older and softer padded HD650 for sure.
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