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Post by Mr Trev on Aug 1, 2018 23:29:35 GMT
FYI in case people haven't noticed it yet. Massdrop has them again, immediate shipping…
One question just popped into my head… can these be modded to get the original prototype sound?
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Post by lobalwarming on Aug 2, 2018 18:26:39 GMT
FYI in case people haven't noticed it yet. Massdrop has them again, immediate shipping… One question just popped into my head… can these be modded to get the original prototype sound? Only way to know for sure is to buy two pairs - perform the proto-mod and compare to verify. Then sell me the stock version at a substantial 'research mule' discount.
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Post by Mr Trev on Aug 2, 2018 18:49:05 GMT
FYI in case people haven't noticed it yet. Massdrop has them again, immediate shipping… One question just popped into my head… can these be modded to get the original prototype sound? Only way to know for sure is to buy two pairs - perform the proto-mod and compare to verify. Then sell me the stock version at a substantial 'research mule' discount. Even better… I'll bait-n-switch you a broken pair of HP150s
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Post by tynanbe on Aug 4, 2018 0:50:50 GMT
What began as an unfinished search for comfortable cans some time ago, eventually found me here reading Frans's excellent write-up about the HD58X. Having missed out on the HD6XX and getting close to buying an HD600, I decided the HD58X were worth a shot and ordered a couple pair that should arrive soon!
I've also been reading about various amps and DACs and not quite sure what route to take. I mostly want to listen from my desktop computer, but it'd be nice to have the option to go portable too; versatility is always appreciated.
Previously I was thinking strongly about Project Polaris; since then I've become interested in Kameleon 2.1.
I've been using a Komplete Audio 6 as my desktop sound card for some years and it's held up well with very little to complain about -- certainly an improvement over the on-board audio.
At this point I'm not 100% sure what would be the best route for cost/performance. I'm happy to make the felt mod to the HD58X and see about the in-line adapter, but since the KA6 has low headphone power, I probably need an amp anyway. My time is tight but I wouldn't necessarily mind getting into a soldering project, and the extra bass extension from filtered HD58X seems attractive.
So I'm tossing around ideas about trying to build a Kameleon 2.1 (desktop or portable? assuming there are even boards available...), or just buying some gear from Garage1217 (Polaris, Kameleon in-line?). Wondering if anyone can volunteer some helpful feedback.
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Post by lobalwarming on Aug 4, 2018 21:45:58 GMT
The best portable amp I've used is the G1217 Solstice and a small collection of desert island tubes. ;-)
No really. It's small, portable, doesn't burn many watts. I take it with me, even for weekend getaways. Fed from an iPad isn't as good as dedicated desktop dac, but still very enjoyable and much better than any pocket ss amp.
I've used a great number of pro and prosumer outboard sound modules, from Presonus to RME - and still do for decent s/pdif output. But most of the headphone amps in these units are pretty meh compared to a good headamp, imo. The RME ADI-2 Pro is quite decent - a fun toy to play with, but a terrible value for money option.
Even if you don't want to join the tube rolling obsession hobby, a good tube in the Solstice makes headphone listening so much more enjoyable than any SS unit I've used. From the uber-clarity of a Tungsram E80cc to the sweet open soundstage of a NU 6F8G, the rich vivid 3D presentation of the Tungsol RP 12SN7, from the addicting musical bloom of a Brimar 6SN7 to the solid punch and dynamics of a Raytheon 2C50 - tubes make music better. Probably life too ;-)
The options to expand the sonic palette for phones puts the Solstice, in my top 5 best low cost gear purchases. Can't advise on the efficacy of EQ options - I'm not a basshead, for me the magic of music is in the midrange. YMMV.
Ultimately, only you have your ears and tastes, suggestions on the internet are a very rough starting point. The headphone hobby is a personal journey - limited only by your time, budget and listening tastes/skills. Enjoy the journey! Expect the 58x will be a very good starting/end point.
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Post by Mr Trev on Aug 5, 2018 3:10:49 GMT
I've always heard that Senns love OTL amps
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 5, 2018 18:24:42 GMT
What began as an unfinished search for comfortable cans some time ago, eventually found me here reading Frans's excellent write-up about the HD58X. Having missed out on the HD6XX and getting close to buying an HD600, I decided the HD58X were worth a shot and ordered a couple pair that should arrive soon! I've also been reading about various amps and DACs and not quite sure what route to take. I mostly want to listen from my desktop computer, but it'd be nice to have the option to go portable too; versatility is always appreciated.
Previously I was thinking strongly about Project Polaris; since then I've become interested in Kameleon 2.1. I've been using a Komplete Audio 6 as my desktop sound card for some years and it's held up well with very little to complain about -- certainly an improvement over the on-board audio. At this point I'm not 100% sure what would be the best route for cost/performance. I'm happy to make the felt mod to the HD58X and see about the in-line adapter, but since the KA6 has low headphone power, I probably need an amp anyway. My time is tight but I wouldn't necessarily mind getting into a soldering project, and the extra bass extension from filtered HD58X seems attractive.
So I'm tossing around ideas about trying to build a Kameleon 2.1 (desktop or portable? assuming there are even boards available...), or just buying some gear from Garage1217 (Polaris, Kameleon in-line?). Wondering if anyone can volunteer some helpful feedback. Boards are available. PM me by the end of the coming week
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Crispy
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Post by Crispy on Aug 6, 2018 19:27:01 GMT
So I'm tossing around ideas about trying to build a Kameleon 2.1 (desktop or portable? assuming there are even boards available...), or just buying some gear from Garage1217 (Polaris, Kameleon in-line?). Wondering if anyone can volunteer some helpful feedback. I can personally say the portable Kameleon route worked fine for me. I plug in a flat response filter module when I go portable with my phone and Philips Cityscape headphones.
I then use the heaphone out of my modded XCan V1 into my Kameleon and put in a Beyer DT770 pro filter when I want to listen through my HIFI. A simple solution to my needs and I had a lot of fun & headache building it as you will see from the link below diyah.boards.net/thread/1108/kameleon-portable-desktop-headphone-amplifier?page=6I noticed Frans still has some boards so don't mess around and get building one for yourself, I will help with any questions you may have and don't forget Frans is always willing to advise you freely - I certainly could not have built it without his expert advice - thanks again Frans
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 10, 2018 16:06:19 GMT
FYI in case people haven't noticed it yet. Massdrop has them again, immediate shipping… One question just popped into my head… can these be modded to get the original prototype sound? Nope. Fortunately not. The prototype did not sound nearly as good.
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Post by Mr Trev on Aug 10, 2018 17:03:21 GMT
FYI in case people haven't noticed it yet. Massdrop has them again, immediate shipping… One question just popped into my head… can these be modded to get the original prototype sound? Nope. Fortunately not. The prototype did not sound nearly as good. I still read some comments from people grumbling that the sound was changed and that they'd rather have the original. Just wondering if a mod was possible. A question about the felt mod… is self adhesive felt an option? I'd think that the adhesive would effectively tape over the vent and completely prevent any breathing
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 10, 2018 19:03:45 GMT
I read that too. There are only a handfull of prototypes around. Those doing the complaining am sure never heard any of these prototypes. I have the proto and original and thought the proto was lacking too much bass and the treble peak was too high. Really glad Senn made those changes. I can still compare them side by side. That is the original proto and modified HD58X and there is no contest. The modified HD58X production = prototype but with great bass extension and less 'strident' treble.
Can't use selfadhesive felt. The glue will damp the bass waayyy too much.
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musikl
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Post by musikl on Aug 10, 2018 19:05:32 GMT
Actually I was one of the people who complained. I'm not sure the complaining is still ongoing or not, but I was quite upset since I wanted a neutral pair of phones, similar to the HD600, as the initial HD58x was described, that would be easy to power. When the production version leaked, it looked nothing like that and I was quite afraid of getting a veiled/muddy/dark final product which wouldn't have suited my purpose at all. And it actually was a little dark sounding, not as natural as I would've hoped.
I did the felt mod with some counselling from Solderdude that can be seen earlier in this thread - actually used foam discs from a pair of Samson SR850 - and the result is all I wanted and more. They're more balanced, they don't sound dark anymore, they're clear and natural. You should try it.
As for the self adhesive felt, it would almost certainly take away too much of the low end resulting in a very thin sound, unnatural in the other extreme. The foam discs I used have 2 sides, the material on one side being denser. I initially stuck them with that side, thinking I'd want as big a bass reduction as I can get, but it was too much. They sounded too thin and unnatural. Kind of like a radio or laptop speakers (only a lot better, but you get the point). So I flipped them over and I was finally happy with the result.
You should try for yourself and settle on the result that sounds best to you. The mod is really easy and completely reversible (which is one of the things I liked about it, I wouldn't have wanted something elaborate or irreversible).
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 10, 2018 19:13:54 GMT
I agree with the tonal balance not being similar to the original HD580. The prototype was indeed closer to it BUT even more bass shy than the original HD580 and HD600.
The bass extension is welcome but agree it is too close to the HD650/HD6XX in stock form. Tonal balance wise. The HD58X is a bit 'tighter' and a bit different in the treble. I too would have liked the HD58X to have been tuned the way mine is now. That sounds great to me. Sort of an 'improved' HD600. Less strident in the upper mids, same tonal balance but better bass extension and 'tighter'.
There is no reason NOT to experiment with different materials and seek a tonal balance that fits one's need. Mine was tuned by ear the way I liked it and came up measuring the best too.
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Post by Mr Trev on Aug 10, 2018 22:10:17 GMT
Since I live in a retail wasteland, I was browsing online at some felt. Found some adhesive felt on Amazon and initially thought "bonus… I won't have to screw with double-sided tape" Then it occurred to me that the adhesive possibly could completely block the vent. Thankfully it occurred to me before I decided to order any. Since I couldn't remember if self-adhesive felt was mentioned (I seem to have the memory retention of a stoned goldfish lately), I thought I may as well ask.
Still waiting on the headphones, but I do plan to give them a couple weeks of eartime in stock form. That'll give me the time to get a handle on what I'm dealing with and how I'll proceed with modding - who knows, maybe I'll be happy with them stock. That'll also account for the time it'll take if I need to buy stuff online (pretty much necessary for the inline adapter - speaking of which can anybody recommend some decent quality plugs and jacks that won't cost a fortune, Digikey doesn't exactly have a great selection)
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 11, 2018 5:26:47 GMT
I have some felt left (and double sided tape) and could slip it in an envelope when the shipping costs are covered (around 2 Euro)
3.5mm male/female and or 6.3mm male female ?
Neutrik (Rean) is easily ordered via e-bay
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