|
Post by notroot on Feb 21, 2021 0:20:45 GMT
I wonder if how the pads are installed influences the frequency response. From what I can tell (don't have the headphones myself), there are three ways of installing them: 1. On the plastic ring that comes with the stock pads. 2. Over the cup lip as pictured, without the stock plastic ring attached. 3. Over the cup lip, with the stock plastic ring underneath. According to this post (https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/lta-headphones-project-thread-freely-accessible-modular-headphone-platforms.10248/#post-327949) on SBAF, it seems like the pads may be at least partially responsible for the 8khz peak.
As a followup question, would the Dekoni pads have a similar effect on the DT880's treble peak? I have the DT880-600, and I'm hoping to bring down the peak somewhat.
|
|
|
Post by Aristrotle on Mar 20, 2021 11:13:45 GMT
I wonder if how the pads are installed influences the frequency response. From what I can tell (don't have the headphones myself), there are three ways of installing them: 1. On the plastic ring that comes with the stock pads. 2. Over the cup lip as pictured, without the stock plastic ring attached. 3. Over the cup lip, with the stock plastic ring underneath. According to this post (https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/lta-headphones-project-thread-freely-accessible-modular-headphone-platforms.10248/#post-327949) on SBAF, it seems like the pads may be at least partially responsible for the 8khz peak. As a followup question, would the Dekoni pads have a similar effect on the DT880's treble peak? I have the DT880-600, and I'm hoping to bring down the peak somewhat. That is a very interesting question, so I did some tests with the equipments I have and here's what I found.
Because Dekoni Elite Velour Pads (I will call them D pads below) have very soft pleather ridges, one can't easily slide them onto the plastic ring on DT1990s like they would original pads(DT880s might be different), I gave up trying after several minutes with zero progress. Alternatively one can pop out the plastic ring, insert it into the ear pad then remount it, though as shown in the picture below the soft pleather ridge can interfere with the locking mechanism and make it quite hard to align the notches
After I mounted the D pad with this method, I found that it couldn't rotate or adjust at all, suggesting that it was caught on one or more of those notches. One can potentially damage their mounting rings or ear pads with this method, also it makes little difference to directly stripping it over the cup lip acoustically as I will discuss in the next reply so it's not recommended.
|
|
|
Post by Aristrotle on Mar 20, 2021 11:27:08 GMT
Before I go into details, I'd like to point out that because I didn't use proper headphone measurement equipment, there are 3 major flaws in my method: 1. I used a large diaphragm condenser microphone that's meant for recording vocals, though it advertised itself as having a very flat frequency response with 2dB presence boost between 5-10KHz and about 6dB/oct roll off after that 2. The ear cups did not form pressure chamber as designed for intended use, coupled with near-field effect of the microphone, one can only guess what effects they will have on the low frequency range 3. There's no pinna, concha, canal gains or any equivalent compensation applied Thus, my results are by no mean accurate and only meaningful in comparison with each other As shown above, this specific pair of Dekoni Elite Velour pads does lower the treble peak a bit, or rather the entire lower to middle treble region, while boosting the bass. This is in line with my perception and Dekoni's own measurements. Also, the weird 5KHz dip is gone here Because I didn't like the extra bass the D pads brought, I resorted to machine generated EQ settings based on my own measurements to lower the treble peak (it's not accurate, but it's a well educated guess). The result is quite positive, my DT1990 still sounds very detailed but with most of its harshness gone. I wasn't able to achieve this result with hand tweaked EQ settings before so I’m pretty content with it
I also experimented with the various mounting methods notroot mentioned, the differences are mostly within 1dB, though curiously the removal of the plastic mounting ring introduced another set of small dip and peak around 5KHz. Without the mounting ring the acoustic filter in front of the driver won't be securely fixed but will still be held by the mesh on the D pads. If one does choose to remove them as well, it results in slightly bigger said set of dip and peak and higher upper treble. I didn't test it on my ear so I don't know whether it has adverse effects on sound
Considering that the plastic mounting ring also hold the baffle on which drivers are installed, without them only friction is holding drivers in place, this method should be avoided on the long term
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Mar 21, 2021 7:27:40 GMT
I wonder if how the pads are installed influences the frequency response. From what I can tell (don't have the headphones myself), there are three ways of installing them: 1. On the plastic ring that comes with the stock pads. 2. Over the cup lip as pictured, without the stock plastic ring attached. 3. Over the cup lip, with the stock plastic ring underneath. New pads are easiest installed by removing the ring and then mount them (need to to this with Dekoni anyway) Once new Beyerpads have been installed once you can just 'rotate' them onto the ring without the need to remove the ring. I would not mount them over the cup (you have to on models other than DT1770/1990. According to this post it seems like the pads may be at least partially responsible for the 8khz peak. It is. I have mounted Beyerpads on other headphones and the peak is also shown there. As a followup question, would the Dekoni pads have a similar effect on the DT880's treble peak? I have the DT880-600, and I'm hoping to bring down the peak somewhat. Dekoni pads will not only lower the treble peak but above all affect tonal balance and comfort. To get rid of the treble peak I would recommend EQ and when not possible (all analog) the passive filter. The DT1990, even with Dekoni pads, still has too much treble though it improves a bit.
|
|
|
Post by elysion on Apr 13, 2021 0:42:09 GMT
I have to be honest: I only briefly skimmed this thread because I haven't been on the forum in a while and there is so much to read. But an answer was already on the tip of my tongue when I saw the title of the thread.
Maybe some of you who know me from before remember that I loved my DT990 very much. This one DT990 unfortunately fell to pieces a few years ago after serving me faithfully for years. I don't even remember how many ear pads I used up with it. All the nicer that I still had a new one as reserve, which had then started its service. I also really like the HD650 (at least with my Neco amps and AD8610 opamps or the Asus Xonar Essence STX).
However, both the DT990 and the HD650 have a few weaknesses. They sometimes gloss over a bit (the HD650 even a bit more...). Because I'm quite sensitive to sharp treble, I like these headphones a lot. However, this also means that they are not particularly ideal for speech reproduction and it can happen, for example, when watching movies that you do not understand text passages well (or not at all).
The K702 is quite different. I would still argue that the K702 is absolutely the nicest looking pair of headphones I own in terms of looks, and it's probably one of the most comfortable as well, although it is a bit clunky. Unfortunately, it has very little bass and its highs are very sharp (yuck!). However, its emphasis on midrange and treble has the distinct advantage of being extremely good for speech reproduction. And that's exactly what I prefer to use it for. (Don't tell anyone! I used it last year in the home office for phone calls and video conferencing, and have since needed it at home virtually every time I'm on the phone with my iPhone. Since then, I understand virtually everything, even when the connection quality is lousy).
When I last looked seriously at headphones in 2017, the DT1990 was not yet on the market (as far as I can remember). However, because I like the DT990 so much, I was hoping even then that the DT1990 might be an improvement. From what I've read here, it may indeed be that the DT1990 leaves at least some of the DT990's weaknesses behind. For example, in the reproduction of speech.
Since I have to look for a new job at the moment, I will have to wait a while for a DT1990. Is that really a bad thing? I still have so many headphones that I don't think I have to worry about missing out somehow. In the last few months, I've also made a rather surprising discovery: I gave one of my Samson SR850s a longer shot with my Asus Xonar Essence STX. I guess I was too stupid to do that earlier. When I select the appropriate impedance setting for 32 ohms on the Xonar Essence STX, the thing sounds really fabulous. The SR850 has K240 earpads and one of my textile headbands, but is otherwise unmodified. For now, it's a welcome change after a bit too much time with the DT990 and HD650 in years past. The K702 has also been serving me well again for some time (see above!).
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Apr 15, 2021 17:11:32 GMT
DT990 doesn't cost that much to replace.
The DT1990 is sort of an improvement in certain areas. The treble peak can be addressed (both in DT990 as well as DT1990).
To a lot of people the difference in sound quality is not as big as the price difference.
|
|
daf
valued member
Posts: 20
|
Post by daf on Jun 21, 2021 8:57:12 GMT
The local review of the dt1990 is without doubt the most compelling review I have ever read. I used to own the 1770 but sold it because of discomfort due to the high clamping force and therefore also wrote off the dt1990. But then I got the idea to take the metal headbow from my dt880 edition and put it in a potential dt1990, or maybe take the whole headband from the 880, if the headbow wouldn't fit. So I bought the dt1990 to try this out, plus 4 pairs of dekoni elite velours of course ;-) And it works. You just have to cut off 4 little plastic taps that helps to keep the headbow in place when assembling the headphone. And then the comfortable 880 edition headbow will slide right in. The headband will be a little more difficult to assemble but, as you can imagine, it is all worth it. Also, to make the dekoni earpads fit better, I took the flat fixing rings from the dt880 and put those on the dt1990 as well. They provide a flat base for the dekoni earpads to rest on.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Jun 21, 2021 10:17:06 GMT
I just bent the headband outwards repeatedly in small 'steps' so that the clamping force became exactly how I liked it. Can you post a pic ?
The clamping force is a bit high. For studios it makes sense, for music enjoyment not so much.
|
|
daf
valued member
Posts: 20
|
Post by daf on Jun 21, 2021 10:52:48 GMT
I don't know how to post pictures. If it involves dropbox, I can't get it to work. But there isn't much to see anyway, now that everything is put together.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Jun 21, 2021 13:18:04 GMT
I don't think it involves dropbox. An external host is needed though. I use postimages.org/
|
|
daf
valued member
Posts: 20
|
Post by daf on Jun 21, 2021 13:50:13 GMT
Ok, let's try this: Looks ok. The little notches on the sides of the original headbow in the picture are not on the edition headbow. The small plastic taps that fit those notches can be removed and then the edition headbow can be used.
|
|
|
Post by ayeyoyoyo on Jan 17, 2022 4:22:58 GMT
I arrived here due to the combination of DT-1990 with the Analytical pads, and the various and incredibly thorough tests done in hopes to get this incredible value in headphones another step or two towards perfect neutrality.
The comparative measurements between the DT-1990 with analytical pads, and:
Stock foam disc Tygr/amiron fleece disc with raised center Passive analog filter Dekoni Elite velour pads
Those comparative measurements and comparisons were so descriptive and comprehensive, and led me to make the DY-1990 my front runner for my next work can.
I’m curious if anyone else besides me, is also eager to learn how well the newer DT900X pad with not only the raised center, but also additional bias notches flanking the center, on the DT1990 with the A pads, or even on other Beyer treble monsters, like the T-90 ?
In any event, much respect for the already thorough nature of the review and experimentation in customization 🤙🏼
|
|
|
Post by fritzs_ha on Jul 1, 2023 8:18:40 GMT
The local review of the dt1990 is without doubt the most compelling review I have ever read. I used to own the 1770 but sold it because of discomfort due to the high clamping force and therefore also wrote off the dt1990. But then I got the idea to take the metal headbow from my dt880 edition and put it in a potential dt1990, or maybe take the whole headband from the 880, if the headbow wouldn't fit. So I bought the dt1990 to try this out, plus 4 pairs of dekoni elite velours of course ;-) And it works. You just have to cut off 4 little plastic taps that helps to keep the headbow in place when assembling the headphone. And then the comfortable 880 edition headbow will slide right in. The headband will be a little more difficult to assemble but, as you can imagine, it is all worth it. Also, to make the dekoni earpads fit better, I took the flat fixing rings from the dt880 and put those on the dt1990 as well. They provide a flat base for the dekoni earpads to rest on. Can't the original bracket also be bent open a little? If I'm not mistaken, I read something about this on the Beier homepage.
|
|
oldson
extremely active
Posts: 1,678
|
Post by oldson on Aug 12, 2023 17:05:54 GMT
only recently aquired the dt1990 and really enjoying it. listening mostly filtered (thanks Frans), but i like both. really depends on the track and so far i have only tried the B pads. not missing my hd800 tbh
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Aug 18, 2023 20:24:38 GMT
With the A pads you probably won't be using the DT1990 without the filter.
|
|