Post by solderdude on Dec 1, 2013 8:37:49 GMT
Ashley,
The few plots out there of your speakers seem to be rolled off below 100Hz in a steady rate almost as if done purposely (to avoid boom) so room resonances aren't 'triggered' is this a property of the speaker/cabinet construction (as they are small) or by filter design ?
Funny thing is when you walk into a typical electronics store (especially the mega stores) you will only find speakers (and headphones) aimed at younger people where exaggerated bass seems obligatory. 10 to 20dB bass lift does not seem to be that uncommon. I can imagine someone that loves bass would rather choose a boomy boombox or bass lifted headphone over a rolled off/flat speaker/headphone any day and will find any good sounding pair of speakers utter crap.
While I use active and passive speakers, and used electrostatic speakers which were actively filtered to a corrected subwoofer, I have only experienced 'boom' in one specific room which I could not get rid off.
My electrostatic system has never been surpassed by any dynamic system I built, be it passive, active or 'hybrid' in terms of clarity and realism. I have to say that the dynamic (mostly 3 way with small sized midranges) versions mostly sounded pretty good and depending on the used units have filtered with 18dB/oct filters if possible (even my active speakers are always 18dB/oct) and I have to admit had more trouble getting to let passive filtered speakers to sound as good as possible than with active ones (which can be far more easily tuned).
I honestly cannot say that the active ones I built sounded any better nor worse than the passive ones nor that one had better clarity or less obvious distortion or 'boom'.
Designing speakers solely by ear seems an impossible task IF you want to do it right, some measurements and science seems paramount as well.
IME combining the right speakers and using them sensibly is the key to as good as possible sound.
The other condition is the room has to 'fit' the speaker system and placement is paramount.
Every speaker I ever heard sounded quite different from the next.
This was way less with electrostatic/magnetodynamics though unless they used some trickery to get them to spread their sound better in the horizontal plane.
I cannot agree that al passives 'boom' either, that seems to be more related to the room itself or how the lower part of the speaker system is tuned rather than the (suggested) 'control'.
Have heard many passive systems with tight non-boomy lows that extends well and lots of clarity/smoothness.
I also cannot agree that an active speaker is better sounding than all passives by definition and it is quite possible to design clear and fast sounding passive speakers as well.
In the same size range I feel active speakers can easily outperform passive ones.
A reason active speakers are often used in PA's en studios also has to do with ease of use (no running around with extra amplifiers and they are easily connected with standard studio plugs (XLR or jack) and very easy to place temporarily.
The small sized monitors in studios are mostly near-field though (as are PC speakers) which often sound quite different in 'normal' room situations.
Reading through your forum I think we mostly share very similar views on audio and electronics.
I like headphones better as it is easier to improve and experiment with this 'niche' market (the hi-fi and high-end part is niche market as are your speakers)
The 'ipod' culture is growing rapidly but most users care more about the looks than sound.
The same people won't buy speakers by sound either unless they can produce massive amounts of bass in the demo room.
What has the world become to ?
b.t.w. correction filters and headphones is sonic bliss.
As it also is with your speakers ... you won't know until you tried it.
Education (by trial and error/experience) and having tried as much as possible is everything.
And I don't really mind the added distortion tubes bring and as that can reach audible levels it doesn't seem to 'worsen' the sound. Should one have the same amount of THD generated by amplification devices with different transfer characteristics it becomes another ballgame.
I share a lot of NwAvGuy's views but certainly not all of them.
The few plots out there of your speakers seem to be rolled off below 100Hz in a steady rate almost as if done purposely (to avoid boom) so room resonances aren't 'triggered' is this a property of the speaker/cabinet construction (as they are small) or by filter design ?
Funny thing is when you walk into a typical electronics store (especially the mega stores) you will only find speakers (and headphones) aimed at younger people where exaggerated bass seems obligatory. 10 to 20dB bass lift does not seem to be that uncommon. I can imagine someone that loves bass would rather choose a boomy boombox or bass lifted headphone over a rolled off/flat speaker/headphone any day and will find any good sounding pair of speakers utter crap.
While I use active and passive speakers, and used electrostatic speakers which were actively filtered to a corrected subwoofer, I have only experienced 'boom' in one specific room which I could not get rid off.
My electrostatic system has never been surpassed by any dynamic system I built, be it passive, active or 'hybrid' in terms of clarity and realism. I have to say that the dynamic (mostly 3 way with small sized midranges) versions mostly sounded pretty good and depending on the used units have filtered with 18dB/oct filters if possible (even my active speakers are always 18dB/oct) and I have to admit had more trouble getting to let passive filtered speakers to sound as good as possible than with active ones (which can be far more easily tuned).
I honestly cannot say that the active ones I built sounded any better nor worse than the passive ones nor that one had better clarity or less obvious distortion or 'boom'.
Designing speakers solely by ear seems an impossible task IF you want to do it right, some measurements and science seems paramount as well.
IME combining the right speakers and using them sensibly is the key to as good as possible sound.
The other condition is the room has to 'fit' the speaker system and placement is paramount.
Every speaker I ever heard sounded quite different from the next.
This was way less with electrostatic/magnetodynamics though unless they used some trickery to get them to spread their sound better in the horizontal plane.
I cannot agree that al passives 'boom' either, that seems to be more related to the room itself or how the lower part of the speaker system is tuned rather than the (suggested) 'control'.
Have heard many passive systems with tight non-boomy lows that extends well and lots of clarity/smoothness.
I also cannot agree that an active speaker is better sounding than all passives by definition and it is quite possible to design clear and fast sounding passive speakers as well.
In the same size range I feel active speakers can easily outperform passive ones.
A reason active speakers are often used in PA's en studios also has to do with ease of use (no running around with extra amplifiers and they are easily connected with standard studio plugs (XLR or jack) and very easy to place temporarily.
The small sized monitors in studios are mostly near-field though (as are PC speakers) which often sound quite different in 'normal' room situations.
Reading through your forum I think we mostly share very similar views on audio and electronics.
I like headphones better as it is easier to improve and experiment with this 'niche' market (the hi-fi and high-end part is niche market as are your speakers)
The 'ipod' culture is growing rapidly but most users care more about the looks than sound.
The same people won't buy speakers by sound either unless they can produce massive amounts of bass in the demo room.
What has the world become to ?
b.t.w. correction filters and headphones is sonic bliss.
As it also is with your speakers ... you won't know until you tried it.
Education (by trial and error/experience) and having tried as much as possible is everything.
And I don't really mind the added distortion tubes bring and as that can reach audible levels it doesn't seem to 'worsen' the sound. Should one have the same amount of THD generated by amplification devices with different transfer characteristics it becomes another ballgame.
I share a lot of NwAvGuy's views but certainly not all of them.