Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 4, 2014 16:47:45 GMT
You see quite a lot of criticisms of the DT770 around which imo, is perhaps exaggerated on occasions. I use them as part of my staple 'diet' of headphones but had a chance to compare two versions ..... Now I wonder whether people reviewing/bashing them have heard one version and not the other. The ones I use at work are 250 ohm pros. (Along with other headphones) They've always been fine for me. Elevated bass but hit hard and in spite of what I've read, the bass definitely doesn't overwhelm the whole spectrum. I gave a pair to another guy on the forums who also found them to be very good and yet, I have been reading quite a lot of critcisms about the bass in particular. On mine, the bass is well defined. I have original pads and today, a new pack of them came in so I compared new ones with the 80 ohm version. There are differences. The 250 ohm version isn't as bassy but it hits nicely. The treble is more 'in yer face' though. The 80 ohm version has more cloud in the bass region and less of a top edge but I actually quite like the 250 ohm version. I'm changing my old ones for a new pair 'cos the pads are new. (A bit like filling the ashtrays in your car so you buy a new car I guess )I'm not overfussed about the idea of the 'breaking in'. I've rarely heard it, so I don't mind starting again with a fresh new one. I wonder whether the 80 ohm version was voiced the way it sounds or whether it's some kind of thng to do with the impedance difference. (Which surprises me) The 250 ohm version imo is better sounding and is the one I've always used. It even has a sense of space which is quite unusual for a closed headphone and is another one of those really quite good buys out there. (DT990 is also imo a really good buy) Does anyone have a 32 ohm version. I'm curious as to what the bass might be like and how much more sensitive is it. I can drive the 250 ohm with an Ipad and it seems fine. If the bass on the 32 ohm is any bigger than the 80 ohm, then it may well be just too much. So if you'd like a DT770, it's a bit difficult with som many versions flying around. Ideally, it would be really nice to work out what the sonic differences between them actually are properly. (Without all the exaggerations that seem to be prevalent on the internet about them) The most common thing said about their bass is that it's a 'one note bass'. I don't actually find that with mine and it seems prety well defined. If anything, the mids are down a bit. Oh .... just check Goldenears. It seems that the 32 ohm version has a nice bit of hangover in the bass (by comparison) and less etched treble. Also - more bass than the 250 ohm version, so maybe the 250 ohm version is the sweet spot? One other thing - if you have the DT990 or 770 (Perhpas 880 too?), try 100 ohms output impedance. They seem 'smoother' to my ears. More even handed and less treble sting.
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dicky
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Post by dicky on Mar 4, 2014 19:24:50 GMT
I only ever owned the 80 ohm version; I thought I was a bass-head and they were my first 'serious' headphones. However, although I initially found the bass good it very quickly became fatiguing to listen to them. I made 3 adapters to change the output resistance of my Panda and didn't find that they improved too much. The bass was definitely too much for me and somewhat monotonic. I upgraded to 250ohm 990s and they seemed more balanced but still with a nice 'elastic' bass that I like. However, I don't use them too much now and prefer the Fostex (with a bit of low frequency boost via an EQ to raise the bass a little). I moved the 770s on as I ended up disliking them.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 4, 2014 19:38:02 GMT
That's what quite a few people say about the 770, Dicky. After I read your post, I switched between my 990 and 770 and the 990 seems to have less clarity in the treble and for me at 100 ohms output, it's actually 'heavier' sounding than the 770.
That's why I think the 80 ohm DT770 is fatter in the bass than the 250 ohm version.
From graphs, it looks as though the 32 ohm one is even bigger!!
The DT990 is less 'fat' on low output impedance. It's more the treble quantity than the bass that seems to change though to me.
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dicky
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Post by dicky on Mar 4, 2014 19:48:09 GMT
I seem to be very sensitive to treble and perhaps my preference for 'bass' is in fact that it skews the overall balance and thus masks the high frequencies.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 4, 2014 19:59:40 GMT
I owned the 'premium' version (250 or 600 Ohm don't recall) for a while. Initially liked the bass and feisty treble but soon started to notice it was a resonating on-note bass and the treble was too piercing. The DT880 and DT990 also have raised treble though but the DT990 does it in a friendlier way. It had some nice qualities (beyer sound and comfort) which is why a gave it a while.
Modded the crap out of them and used them actively filtered but ended up not liking them and sold them. Same with the DT880, it was great for jazz but like to listen to other genres as well.
There are many different versions of it though including older and newer 'same' versions that had received silent changes over the years. I have seen them vary (in measurements) from fairly flat to heavy bass monsters.
Still have the DT990 for sentimental reasons.
Only use the filtered Fostex, filtered DT1350 (now and then) and KSC75/35 the rest is tucked away. I find myself picking music that I like on these HP's instead of having multiple flavour headphones around for when an album/recording requires that.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 4, 2014 20:00:01 GMT
Yes, it could be, Dicky. The DT770 has quite a sharp top end. I think I saw quite a peak in the top on its FR graph. Bass is pretty good on paper but the 32 ohm version has a distinct hike in the bass in comparison to the 250 ohm version. I think the 80 ohm is the same, which could account for so many criticising the bass response I guess. I like the DT990 a lot actually. Frans, I had a look on Changster and someone there mentioned updates to drivers and thought perhaps the DT770 might have been updated. Particularly in the area of distortion and associated harmonics, which could account for the top end sounding gritty. The new one seems quite good in that respect. It is a tad sharper than the 990 up there, but bass is virtually on a level. Sneaky mods by Beyer? The BBC seem to like the DT770 and if you see videos of guests in their studios, they tend to be wearing them. (Probably got them very cheap!!) The 600 ohm version rolls off in the bass a bit sooner than the others I think. I can't get pictures to show now, but I had a look at the FR on GE and the bass looks ok. It's the treble peak and dip that looks a bit nasty!! In fact, the bass looks close to what they regard as ideal! DT 770 250 ohm FR link
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 28, 2015 18:11:11 GMT
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 28, 2015 18:44:16 GMT
It looks lumpier than I hear but the top is quite sharp for long term listening. The mids aren't as sucked out as I've seen described though and the graph shows that. Mids aren't actually too bad really.
I'm not sure which I prefer between 990 and 770. I like the warmth of the 990 but the 770 is quite an exciting listen with some types of music. Both seem quite coloured to me though. The 250 is more natural perhaps than both of these!
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Post by elysion on Mar 1, 2015 1:33:34 GMT
Nice thread. I have also the DT770 Pro's with 250 Ohms. They've been my first pair of Beyer 'phones. My intention was to get good closed back circum-aural headphones since I had a big gap in the closed-back section of my headphone armory. I've bought them from my favourite heapdhones dealer in Switzerland ( House of Sound), which has VERY low prices for many 'phones (especially Beyers). I've had the chance to listen to a couple of other Beyers there and I've discovered also the DT990's. But I've bought the DT770 Pro's first. I was out to get closed-back 'phones and so I did. (A week later, I've bought the DT990 Pro's and they are my favourite 'phones since then). Although I'm using them only seldom, I'll keep the DT770 Pro's. Both my DT770 Pro's and DT990 Pros' are the 250 Ohm variant and they are quite close to each other, but as mentioned above, the DT990's are much more friendly to your ears. The DT990 Pro's are absolutely perfect for my ears (beside some slight weakness with speech in moovies), while I have some problems with the bass backwave (=> too much bass...) of the DT770 Pro's and they're also a bit annoying in the treble. I can't listen for a very long time with the DT770's therefore. Still good 'phones and beside the HD25-1/II's they are one of the few closed-backs in my stash. I also like the round circual-aural earcups of the DT770/DT990 very much. They feel very comfortable. I also like my HD580's and HD650's, but the earcups are not as comfortable. I've heard also the non-Pro variant of the DT990 (also 250 Ohms), but they've been a bit disappointing. Less pressure of the earcups (they felt a bit loose), not as pronuciated sound as the Pro's, also less bass and the non-coiled cable was IMO a disadvantage. The non-Pro variant also costs more. Did anyone hear actually a non-Pro variant of the DT770's? My guess is that they could be a bit less bassy compared to the Pro-variant, which could be an advantage for the DT770's (but was a disadvantage for the non-Pro DT990's). Sometimes small changes make a big difference. I've had a look at the website of House of Sound and Beyer itself and I have not found a non-Pro variant of the DT770's. I'm not sure if there was a non-Pro variant of them at all. Before I forget it: My favourite Beyer seller mentioned above has listed both Pro variants even lower than a couple of years before (and it was the best worldwide price we have seen back then on RG!). They've been 155 CHF back in 2011 and now both list for 145 CHF. I'm really thinking of getting another pair of DT990 Pro's now, since my old DT990's have seen heavy use in the last four years. They don't look as nice as new and I have to change the pads soon anyway. I have still a pair of new pads for them in my spare parts inventory. ultra-cheapo DT990 Pro'sultra-cheapo DT770 Pro's
Since there have been some request about international shipping from that Swiss seller, I've asked them about international shipping back in 2011. They had no interest in international shipping. For me, it's also to risky to do it on a private basis. But perhaps it's a good reason for a short city trip to Basle (in German: Basel). If I'll go to Basle to get another pair of DT990 Pro's, I'll probably ask them again about international shipping since they accept now also Paypal payments, which was not the case back in 2011. BTW: What about the T90's? Did anyone hear them? I can't afford them at the moment, but I'm very interested to hear them, because they are a kind of successor to the DT990's. T90
They seem to be more like the non-Pro variants of the DT990's. At least when comparing the look.
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Post by elysion on Mar 1, 2015 2:18:40 GMT
Maybe a couple of former (or current) RG members have some memories about Colt ("Merton"). He has loved his DT770's. IIRC, he has loved the good isolation, which was very important for him. He has modded this DT770's also with very strange wax pads. I'm not sure if he did this to improve isolation even further. I've suggested him to use Beyer gel pads instead, but he couldn't afford them.
Has anyone tested the Beyer gel pads? I don't recall, if we had a closer look on the gel pads on RG back then.
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Post by elysion on Mar 1, 2015 4:40:48 GMT
Colt/Merton was certainly a bit controversial. Sure. But I've mentioned him because he really liked his DT770's.
When recalling old memories from RG about DT770's, I was remembering also the posts from Colt about his DT770's.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 1, 2015 7:55:22 GMT
Maybe a couple of former (or current) RG members have some memories about Colt ("Merton"). Memories? More like nightmares!! They make Tech-boys's insane ramblings seem like measured, logical, reasoning. Nightmare on Crazy Street. Actually I never understood why Techboy spent more on tubes than the amp itself. Wouldn't listen and it cost him quite a bit. DT770 is a nice headphone, except for the sizzle at the top. The bass is big and it makes it sound like a floorstanders speaker in too small a room. I love the comfort of them and the isolation. They make a nice contrast with the DT150 which doesn't have that sharp end. There's a lack of serious measurements of the DT150 come to think of it. My guess is that the bass is elevated and treble rolled away on the 150. They're great for listening at 'live' volume levels, whereas the DT770 would become a bit painful. DT770 is good for low volume listening though. Bass becomes less obvious and treble is less searing. It's funny, but I always consider what volume a headphone works best at. They don't all work as well at the same volume. Some are great at high volume whereas others work much better lower down. My D600 is one example. It works nicely at low volume but at high volume, the bass can rattle your head!! I'm not sure whether measurements take this into consideration the way that they're currently done. It would be nice to work out how they are perceived at different volumes and so, work out the ideal volume level for best 'on ear' response. Some of the big bass headphones seem to work really well at low volume and I don't think that this is always considered. I always start low and slowly go up until the mids snap into focus. It's very often then, that the bass kind of plops into place. It's also a lot lower than people would imagine. I also think that many people habitually listen at the same volume without any consideration of the 'virtual room' size in the cups and the amount of volume needed to focus the sound for that room. We just turn up by habit and if the headphone sounds bad, then we blame the headphone, but things can be improved for many by being a bit more astute with the volume control and using the way that the Flescher curves predict. Many of us listen to headphones WAY louder than speakers. Just turn on some music and listen between speakers and headphones to see just how much louder you listen. It can be quite a lot of difference. If I'm playing into a headphone though, it's very important to have the level quite high, as though you are on stage virtually. That way, you play much more naturally and don't hold back because you naturally try to match the volumes that you're playing along with. Imagine a rock guitar solo played at tiny volume. The player would feel hemmed in. So those headphones tend to be rolled away in the top which allows high volume if the coils can take it. That's the Beyer DT150 for you. Good engineers also eq to get the best sound AT THE VOLUME YOU LISTEN AT, not the best sound only. They listen and measure to get the sound balanced at the volume that you want to use. The best guys are extremely good at eq'ing as well. DT770 is sharper and is good for studios mixing speech and music at lower volume. If we could compensate graphs for different volumes, some might look more like each other perhaps with regards to 'perceived' frequency response. Ie; a DT770 might resemble a DT150 at low volume compared to DT150 at high volume. Line the two graphs up, and they might be closer. I think that volume is ignored in relation to headphone sound quite often. If I turn headphones up loud, then what I actually hear is more like what graphs indicate. However, focus the headphones which for many is a different volume and things can be a lot more even imo. We don't consider volume though.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 1, 2015 7:56:39 GMT
I had the non-pro version (the edition) and it had more bass. It was a one-note bass though and no matter how hard I tried with damping and filtering I couldn't get it 'right'. It sounded much like the green line where the blue line is the professional version. The highs, though accentuated sounded a bit 'smoother' though, closer to that of my DT990. It also sounded more 'sucked-out' than the Pro version. This is how GE measured the DT770 edition: and the Pro 250: It shows the accentuated bass in the edition which goes extremely deep and doesn't bleed in the mids (DT990) but consists of a big resonance. It also shows less piercing treble. I remember it had a layer of felt with a hole in it on the driver (like my old DT990) I have always liked the fit and comfort of Beyers. Both the old DT990 and DT770 edition had a very low clamping force. The GE graphs show the 4kHz 'dip' but not as deep and nulling. When you look closer to the top you will notice they use 1/3 octave smoothing. This 'irons out' sharp peaks and little wiggles. Below a 1/3 oct smoothed DT770 Pro plot.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 1, 2015 8:05:58 GMT
Sorry Frans. We crossed over!
Whenever I e used a DT770 to work with, they do seem to eq quite well though. That's why I feel that they might be a good Kameleon headphone.
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Post by elysion on Mar 1, 2015 10:55:16 GMT
I remember that you have told us this already years ago on RG. It's true. I'm listening often at a rather low volume with my 'phones, because I wear them usually for hours, while sitting in front of a computer. Many AKG 'phones (like K500/501/601/701/702) sound a bit better with good amplification (preferably from a tube amp) and at higher loudness levels. My main problem with the K702's (beside the non-existing bass and the annoying treble) is exactly that, i.e. I need a higher volume level as is comfortable for me.
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