Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 21, 2014 14:49:09 GMT
I've been using one of these for a week now and I must say it is a very impressive headphone for music listening. It's a tailored sound and the Denon bass and top is still there. You can really hear that it's a Denon headphone still, although it doesn't use the same technology as the old Denon line. In case you aren't familiar with a 'Denon' sound ..... it's big with a heft in the bass and a treble sting. This one has less of the top sting though, although it does go up high. Even their old buds had a similar sound and I once used Denon amplifiers with speakers, which also had a real feeling of weight behind the sound. Some might not like the Denon bass levels.
I'm a great admirer of the AH-D2000. I really like its sound a lot and the reason is simply, the bass. It hits like no other headphone. Some find the treble too much; even sibilant, but for me, it's fine. Maybe my age is starting to show in the top end which for me isn't too bad if it's raised a bit. (Not too much, but also depending onn whereabouts in the treble)
The AH-D600 was selling for a silly price but it has been reduced and can now be had for £160 ish pounds in the UK. I tried the whole line up when they first came out and the funny thing was that I prefered the D600 to the bigger one. The bass on the bigger headphone in the new line up was verging on head splitting. I like bass but not walls of Jericho stuff!! The 600 was (for me) slightly closer to the D2000, although not the same.
The sound is relaxed and big to say the least. It's very like listening to a speaker if I'm honest. It's the bass that does that for me. You also get a nice crystal sounding treble, although FR graphs show a roll away - it doesn't sound exactly like the shape of the published graphs tbh.
The bass is tremendous. It's big hearted and goes extremely deep. Double basses can really be heard easily. If I play in a room and then listen to it played back, the levels of bass match what I hear in the room. It's not a bass for people who enjoy a 'purist' sound but it does match what I hear in a room from a synth and electronic kit. If you feel that headphones don't portray the depth of bass experienced in live shows, these do!! They are definitely tailored to reproduce a 'live' level of bass rather than a 'balanced' bass.
The treble is smooth and it really doesn't seem that rolled away to me. That may be a deficiency in my hearing, but if the top was stronger, it might be too strident in comparison to the rest. The d2000 treble is more etched.
It's weakness imo is are the mids. I'd say that they are recessed slightly. It's not nasty but gets you turning up so the bass smacks you in the eye when it lifts off. The bass is excellent and compares with speakers really well.
The D600 gets very mixed reviews. I've lived with it for a week now and I must say, I do like it's sound. It's not an analytical headphone, but it really sounds full and musical. It puts the clout into rock music big time.
I suspect hi fi types would go on about the 'massive' bass and recessed mids. It's not as bad as what I've read and maybe it's the look of this headphone in comparison to the old D2000, D5000 and the 7000. Some think that it lines up with the old D5000 although I suspect that this has a bigger bass. I wish I'd heard one but both the D2000 and the D600 are extremely nice headphones in a very different way to any other I've heard.
Which one is better? Not sure yet but the fullness of the D600 and lack of sibilance (for me) is lovely. Some have said that they find the D600 sibilant, but I don't to be honest.
Strange floating drivers on the D600. They're not fixed at the edges. Very comfortable to wear. Good isolation. A bit big and heavy perhaps. FR is quoted as 5 - 45KHz. It certainly does go low but I'm not that sure about the amplitude up at 45KHz!!!
Some find the fit a bit loose. It is loose, but you can help it if it doesn't sit quite right on your head by using one of the Beyer headband straps. That lifts them for you if you prefer. I can use them either way.
So, a really nice sounding headphone that may turn audiophiles off but it portrays 'music' well and well worth £160 imo.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 21, 2014 16:07:11 GMT
There isn't much 'data' available about these headphones. I did find plots made by Navii at Head-fi. Interestingly he also compared the D600 to the D5000 (which is close to the D2000 in measurements) and the D7100. Below D600 vs D5000 They have a similar tonal balance, although the D2000 has somewhat less bass and less presence (dip around 4-5kHz) which gives it a more laid back character. The peak at 10kHz still gives it enough treble and goes at least to 20kHz. The dip around 300Hz may give the bass some weirdness (detached sounding) but it is better than a peak there (think DT1350) The D71000 and D600 are very much related, so are D2000/D5000/D7000 Another one that measured the D7100 shows a similar plot so Navii's plots seem quite accurate. There is also the 300Hz dip (but seems more severe) but lacks the 4-5kHz dip. This may not be so strange. The 4-5khz dip and 10kHz peak are often found in modern headphones and sometimes have found similar dips in my plots that do not seem to be there in 'official' plots. Strangely enough if you EQ those dips out it starts to sound realistic (HD600 style) so reckon those dips are really there but as those dips are in the same area as the ear canal resonance (and thus also in an artificial head) this may have something to do with it. I heard the D7100 a while ago and found it too bassy, with some dis-attached bass and liked the D2000 better. The D7100 has somewhat more bass than the D600.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 21, 2014 16:37:15 GMT
Thanks Frans. Maybe they do have a lot more in common with the d7100 going by the FR graphs. Yes, I'd say the bass is quite sub woofer like and is more present in the D600 compared to the old D2000. The D2000 treble is more forward as well. What makes me laugh are these claims that headphones respond up to 45khz, but probably at -40db volume!!!! From memory, the new family of D headphones get more bassy as you go up the line. I can't imagine any heavier than this. This is about my limit I think of what I could tolerate but it does actually match what I get in a room with a big speaker. If I match the volume roughly (by ear) I'd say that the D600 is like having big floor standers in a room that perhaps is a bit small for floor standers. (Something that UK people often do because of small rooms) They really imitate speakers in room well but not a 'purist' kind of sound. Quite revealing, especially of timing in the bass actually. They have a presence that is quite dramatic and are really flattering with most stuff put through them. Pure entertainment is how I'd describe them, unless you don't like bass as loud as you'd get in a club or 'live' performance. Perhaps better mids would help them too but they have this addictive quality that makes many other headphones seem insignificant by comparison!! What is quite funny - written on the box ........ Provides the performance of a box loudspeaker from a headphone. (Pretty true) Acoustically transparent - tuned to a flat EQ.......... EH?
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Oct 21, 2014 18:26:58 GMT
Ian just curious to know , when you say good isolation, does it compare to that of the dt250? thanks mate
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 21, 2014 20:19:23 GMT
It's about the same or better.
I forgot about you, Simon. It's great from Ipods. The sensitivity is very high so you get real volume and punch from it. It comes with two cables. A ten foot one for home listening and a short one with a remote in line for Ipods. The remote half works with my X1 as well.
It's a strange headphone really but very entertaining in spite of not being what I'd call neutral. It has some unusual characteristics with orchestral and rock that kind of oppose each other too. With rock, the bass is big and sub woofer like. In fact, one of the most speaker like sounds I've heard in a headphone. It sounds like a floors-stander tbh. That kind of works against it in hi fi headphone terms, although for me, I really like that. I'm not fussed about thin edgy headphones no matter how accurate they may be.
Here's the weird part. You'd expect timps to be way over the top with orchestral. They're not. So there's something about the bass frequency response that really kicks out massive bass in rock and way more balanced bass with timps. The biggest difference I hear in the bass with orchestral music is that the double basses play 'tunes' that I can actually hear with ease. On many headphones, I hear a grunt, but not the actual notes with such precision. I was listening to Petrouchka by Stravinsky, and at the start, the flute plays a melody with the strings doodling about, but you actually hear a double bass melody right down low. I have heard that live but rarely on headphones. Timps have nothing like the weight that I'd expect after hearing rock basses. They slam with massive power. I find that very weird. I wonder whether I'm detecting much more sub bass than I'm used to on a headphone and the orchestral instruments don't actually go down there.
I find it more natural at louder volume where it snaps into focus. I find that is more to do with the mids. Once you get the mids right, the treble also sharpens up.
It's a curious headphone with an unusual frequency response. I can see many really not liking the bass with its potential for sub woofer thunder but I must admit that I have been really enjoying its musicality for a week now. I've either adjusted or its changed; it doesn't seem as strong to me now as it was at first. Going back to well known favourites is awful. They sound a bit insipid. (Senn 598 for instance)
The Beyer dt250 is really polite in comparison and dare I say it ........ Seems dull. Maybe with time, the Denon sound will wear me down. It's not flat in spite of what the box says, but it sure pumps out high octane music. Treble can be soft, but that is nice at higher volume.
It's a big headphone, so wearing outside on the street is going to make you look nuts. I like it with the X1 which drives it to nutter levels since it's so sensitive. It's only 25 ohms. So noisy amps are out.
Personally, I like it with its oddities. It makes music fun. A bit like the Senn Momentum but it is a better sound I think with a slightly more improved top end. It's built like a tank and is very comfortable with the soft leather pads, although quite heavy.
It has had strange reviews on HF, but I think once you get really big bass in a headphone, purists start to hate it. I don't understand where that bass goes with orchestral though. It's just not there.
Voices on poor recordings start to boom but on good recordings are fine. So it is prone to voice boom but it is definitely a contender for the dt150 which also has a big bass. Slightly more bass than the.d2000 and more relaxed treble.
However, I think a listen before buying is probably a good idea. It has a real character of its own that I think people will love or hate. The d1100 has some similarities with it. There is definitely a 'house' sound going on here.
Underestimated imo due to people not being able to see past the bass which doesn't push everything else out funnily enough!!
Using the graph that Frans has posted, I eq'd the dip in the treble and that does open up the top quite a bit as well. On the X1, I have quite wide spacing, so putting up the nearest one helped at 8 kHz. Makes it slightly less warm and give a fraction more air. Eq'ing that particular zone makes it sound more 'normal' actually and a bit flatter!! Actually, a bit like an hd650 on steroids.
Listening to Frank Zappa's 'One Size Fits All' which is an amazing album and it sounds like a remix on these headphones. It's gained weight and presence. I'm also noticing more of the inner parts due to the balance of the headphone, I think. Because it's not a harsh listen, you can get more 'inside' the main sounds. I'm finding myself focusing more and more on the lesser parts in the band and hearing doubling that I've not really been so aware of before.
I don't think it's because the headphone is more revealing; it's just the tonal balance that seems to allow you inside more easily.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Oct 23, 2014 18:07:14 GMT
cheers Ian i will have to give these an audition. i am aiming at the fiio x5 plus a good isolating headphone of reasonable quality, so these may suit or the beyers. had not considered the denons before due to the price, but as you say they can be picked up quite cheaply now.(i did love my old d7000) i am in no hurry so will make sure i get to audition, first. i guess it would make sense to buy the player first.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Oct 23, 2014 19:04:39 GMT
just been looking on ebay for these. a dealer based in middlesex is advertising them at £160 and can be collected from a local argos store, even though they argos advertise them at £350. this seems an odd set-up, but very tempting, if they can be returned to argos too.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 23, 2014 21:08:24 GMT
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Post by mruzmininu on Oct 23, 2014 22:38:15 GMT
i got two of them, they did go cheap as chips a while ago on eBay, the last one i grabbed was 60 gbp delivered. the Beyer headband is a must, the fit and comfort gets perfect. a friend once said they sounded "somehow not right" at first, after some longer listening he was impressed and said they reminded his car audio system (he used a 250mm free edge paper cone woofer from floor-standers as the bass driver in his car) and really loved the d600.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 24, 2014 5:07:59 GMT
I found similar. It sounded 'flabby' at first, but I think I've attuned to it as well. The big bass isn't always there, depending on what you listen to. It just sounds like pure luxury!! A d2000 with big muscles
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 24, 2014 6:34:06 GMT
It's funny how the brain can 'correct' for certain flaws of headphones. I have a similar thing with the DT1350 (even filtered) it sounds a bit 'off' when you put them on but within one song I get used to it and the sound is very 'convincing' The A5Pro also has this big (not always) present bass and a similar dip around 4kHz but lacks extension/finesse, I think the D600 does this last bit better. Also the bass doesn't extend that much (D600 does) It (the A5Pro) is WAY too expensive though and IMO NOT worth the retail price it needs to drop to at least 50% of the MSRP. I think the A3Pro (and perhaps A1Pro) are priced more 'correctly' (E 170 and E 100 respectively). Haven't heard/seen those in the wild and may sound less than the bigger brother but do share looks and pads AFAICT. While I used to love big bass in headphones (think HD681) I have grown out of it, more or less, but it depends on the music as well. Better made recordings I like better 'flat' and at that point sound right to me (I stop hearing the ger and only hear the music) while most 'pop music' may not. For that type of music some extra bass is welcome and some removed 'edge' as well. This is what these headphones 'do' they add some bottom end without bloating the mids and 'remove' harshness and 'soften' the treble without getting the impression you are missing much. I blame studios and mixing/mastering engineering in that case.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Oct 30, 2014 18:25:16 GMT
i got two of them, they did go cheap as chips a while ago on eBay, the last one i grabbed was 60 gbp delivered. the Beyer headband is a must, the fit and comfort gets perfect. a friend once said they sounded "somehow not right" at first, after some longer listening he was impressed and said they reminded his car audio system (he used a 250mm free edge paper cone woofer from floor-standers as the bass driver in his car) and really loved the d600. £60!!!!! when was this? please let me know if you see any more
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Post by mruzmininu on Nov 1, 2014 15:16:36 GMT
i got two of them, they did go cheap as chips a while ago on eBay, the last one i grabbed was 60 gbp delivered. the Beyer headband is a must, the fit and comfort gets perfect. a friend once said they sounded "somehow not right" at first, after some longer listening he was impressed and said they reminded his car audio system (he used a 250mm free edge paper cone woofer from floor-standers as the bass driver in his car) and really loved the d600. £60!!!!! when was this? please let me know if you see any more Last year, November. The price did go downhill after the confusing reviews at HF and some pro reviewers.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Dec 12, 2014 16:45:51 GMT
AH-D600 as measured by Goldenears: Bassy but otherwise tonally quite decent. Excellent extension to both sides of the spectrum. I suspect great for listening to music on very low listening levels.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Dec 12, 2014 17:25:01 GMT
Spot on Frans. It is good low down in volume. The massive bass is eased but still has impact at low volumes. It is also more extended in the treble than you'd think. The bass is so big that you kind of don't notice. Although it's flawed in sound really, I do actually find it a very attractive listen and surprisingly detailed once you get over the novelty of the bass. Films are just amazing on them and you really get a massive sense of scale, similar to the overblown systems found in cinemas. The 10,000 peak did surprise me on the original graph that you posted. I don't hear it anything like as strong as it suggests, but the Goldenears graph seems closer to what I think is right. Certainly the bass, but the peaks aren't as exaggerated as the first graph in the treble, although they re in the same places. Now they're down in price, they are a worthwhile headphone really. Extremely comfortable and sound like floorstanders in a room that's a bit small for them!!! I can't find any review of them on GE!
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