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Post by c61746961 on Feb 6, 2015 18:08:39 GMT
Thanks for the thoughts, Ian. I agree, Frans is helping this community tremendously. I will be pursuing this pair, but since all my needs are met I do not feel the urge to splurge 100+ USD on a pair just to toy around with it, I'll keep hunting for cheap second hand offers.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 6, 2015 18:33:25 GMT
Frans has this unbelievable talent for getting things to sound 'right'. I've taken things that he's made or modded to people who work with the gear and their jaws just drop.
This Philips headphone is really good with levels of low bass that seem impossible to be coming from the small cups.
By comparison, the much more expensive DT1350 is all over the place in comparison to this. It's 'honky' in the mids, mean with bass and the treble is very ragged The Philips is way more cohesive and just sounds natural. Nothing forced or accentuated.
I'd say the treble is less refined than the hd650 but it's a cheap headphone by comparison. Unbelievable sound for the price.
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Post by c61746961 on Feb 7, 2015 2:45:08 GMT
Well, it seems I will get the pair shipped to Mexico for $52 USD after all , I will let you know how the modding goes. Thanks for all the info!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 7, 2015 8:28:22 GMT
That's a good price. I'm waiting for a standard one to arrive so that I can compare to Fran's modded version.
It's not what I'd say is a revealing top sound, but that's the limitations of the headphone itself coming through. With the mods, I really think you're getting the best from it and it sounds like something way more expensibpve tbh.
Interestingly, I'm becoming more aware of the limitations of the drivers in headphones I think, after hearing a few modded. All of mine have been looked at on the same measuring device and sound 'flattish' but still different. Some are better than others.
We accept tilts in headphones very easily but I'm finding moreso that I now have to adjust for the tilts. It takes me a bit longer since I'm more aware of them. Perhaps my understanding of headphones is developing a lot more nowadays and rather than just being accepting of the sounds from them, I start to question how they're tilted in frequency response and what does it cover up.
The Philips is a really nice portable listen though and definitely worth what you're paying for one.
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 7, 2015 9:43:44 GMT
My mate turned up with a Cityscape. The improvements made by Frans are quite striking.
The original -
Boomy. A poor Beats like sound. Odd colouration that I've never heard quite as strong as on these. There is quite a strong resonance. Mids seem recessed and voice recede back.
Going back to the modded version makes it sound superb by comparison.
So this headphone must be modded to sound half decent imo. Not really that impressed with the Cityscape as it is sold at all.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 7, 2015 22:14:42 GMT
That's a good thing as well because people who paid the full price for them are now selling them for much less.
Bought 4 of them already (1 for usage, 1 for spare parts, one for my brother who heard one and was hooked, one is now in Ians hands) Will buy some more if I can find them cheap. Saw an all black version but he asked too much.
Its amazing wat some felt and decent pads can do !
When I auditioned the Philips I heard it had desirable qualities I could work with, just like with the HD681.
yes... it MUST be modified without it, it sounds coloured, a bit off and way too boomy.
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 7, 2015 22:30:59 GMT
Not worth the full price tbh, Frans. I've seen glowing reviews but they are along way out. Or maybe I've been spoilt with the headphones to the point that I can no longer tolerate this kind of sound?
It's really skewed.
Btw, new ones no longer have the sliding volume control. Just an 'answer' button. I see you did a great job nobbling that up on mine. You made it a through connection which is much better.
The difference is absolutely amazing.
Simply changing the pads to Shure takes the bass right down although the top is a bit shrill, but it's a lot better than stock.
It's another bargain once modded.
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Post by c61746961 on Feb 7, 2015 23:03:39 GMT
Frans, is any of your tested pairs the /28 variant?, I just noticed that it's the pair I will be getting and I want to know if it really sounds different or not.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 8, 2015 8:25:49 GMT
I Europe there is only the 10 variant. The 28 is exclusive for US so won't see one here. I totally forgot about the 28 variant.
The specs seem different but have no idea HOW different.
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2015 8:33:57 GMT
I compared the Philips with the Beyer DT250 this morning. Very different in the mids. (I think) the Philips has a fuller mid section and so doesn't sound quite as thin as the Beyer comparatively. In fact, the Beyer seems slightly more 'sucked' out in the mids and also, I think a peak in the treble. (Probably like the other Beyers)
The funny bit is that the Beyer sounds more like a hi fi type headphone in that it's thin in the mids by comparison, so the top seems more etched. The Philips has a rounder more complete sound that is perhaps more musical.
It's impossible really to say which is most 'correct' sounding but it just shows what good value the Philips is once modded.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 8, 2015 8:49:23 GMT
My thoughts as well.
The DT250 is better for studio work and the Philips is better for listening to music. I found the treble of my Philips slightly 'smoother' than the DT250 The one from Ian has 2mm synthetic-felt where mine has 3mm wool-felt. The 2mm felt measures flatter and higher up.
The Philips has a small dip around 3khz which the DT250 doesn't have (K550 is also flat there) and the Philips has a bit of bass boost giving it more body.
If one had to make a final mix on a headphone it should be done with DT250 (well actually with the HD650 on Kameleon) instead of the Philips though.
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2015 9:07:58 GMT
Actually yes, the hd650 is useable as a mixing headphone as long as it's quiet around you now. Never even thought about that. The accuracy is definitely there with them.
There's no big deal between the Beyer and Philips except the price!! I'm not certain exactly what I mean by 'musical' other than it contains more 'body' in the sound. Although my ears adapt very quickly to the Beyers (they do with most headphones though) the Philips sounds good straight on the head and very natural as well.
There is quite a peak in the treble of the Beyer too. It becomes quite obvious when you go from the Philips onto the DT250. After a few seconds, you forget about the peak and loose track of it very quickly, but it's definitely there.
Maybe I'm getting sensitive to these treble peaks? Perhaps it would be less of a problem if the run up to peaks weren't so steep, but the Beyer one seems like a right little mountain by comparison!!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 8, 2015 9:41:09 GMT
I used to be very fond of my DT990's treble. That one has a substantial peak there (like the DT770/DT880) and really liked the 'enhanced' detail. The small hump in the bass made it warmish (DT880 doesn't have this and sounded more midrangy to me) with that detail on top I loved it. At one point one driver failed.
I replaced it with a HD250-linear II which had similar 'treble qualities' and big bass. Eventually I strated to dislike the overblown bass and the treble quality was a bit 'off'.
I went out listening around and also auditioned the HD600 and the (then just out HD650) and settled for the HD650 instead of buying another DT990.
Later I fixed the DT990 driver and immediatly noticed the treble peak after I gotten used to the HD650. Didn't use the DT990 and sold the HD250-II.
Now I have learned (or grown accustomed to) headphones without bass and treble peaks. I prefer them closer to 'flat'. I had to 'unlearn' using boosted bass and treble (and using loudness) as well when I was a young ladd.
I did this by listening to music with the treble and bass sliders all the way down for a week or so. Hated the sound.... After that I set the sliders to neutral and all seemed better form there.
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2015 10:01:27 GMT
Self inflicted punishment eh? I WILL like flat .... Write it 100 times. I agree that flat, whatever the idea of flat ends up being is a standard that is important for accurate headphones. It's also deciding the standard, although I suspect it's pretty close now as it is. The market pushes manufacturers to exaggerate things though in an attempt to create a 'unique' headphone and its very easy for us to adjust in most cases. Once that is learned, as you say, it's difficult to get out of it. It could also mean that things change at the other end of the chain. Where studios aim at proper eq'ing and concentrate on capturing the more finer nuances of music rather than tring to make it loud all of the time. The Senns are really showing some poor mixing decisions on some recordings that I have. Then I guess people blame the headphone? Bit like having a horrible transistor radio and play it through the Senn and Kameleon and then blame the headphone!! My own taste in bass is diminishing I must admit. Too much and now, I'm noticing it far more. I listened to the new Philips for 5 minutes before I ripped the pads off to lessen the bass. You also become more aware of a headphones subtleties once everything comes through more balanced actually. I've been seeing the hd650 in a totally different way as well. I knew it was a good headphone but now feel that it's a really great headphone. If I were going to have to buy another headphone, it would be a Senn hd650 in case the two that I have packed up!!
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 16, 2015 10:52:11 GMT
Another set of HD650 pads arrived today along with some Shure 940s.
I was given the other Philips headphone so I simply changed the pads to the 940 ones and the difference is absolutely amazing as far as the bass goes. Similar to Fran's modded vesrion but more treble laden.
Still very nice though, so just changing the pads makes these sound very nice tbh.
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