Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 11, 2015 19:09:06 GMT
I've had another k550 delivered for a student who wants to use one for monitoring and it has a different sound to the two that I have. One of mine is modded, but this one has a bigger bass.
That got me to take a look on GE and Tyll's site. There are discrepancies in what they show. GE shows a peak around 100 which is quite big whereas the other site shows it, but not so large. GE also shows a bit more extension in the treble than the rather dull look on Tyll's site. The GE graph also shows stronger, deeper bass which is again, what I'm getting. Perhaps Tyll didn't get a good seal on his when he measured it?
What I'm getting with this headphone (by ear) is a big bass. That's something that the K550 isn't particularly known for. It goes very deep and has real power.
I'm listening to some albums by Enthiogenic atm, and the lower bass is positively thunderous, which is very important for this type of music. (Electronic)
Now I'm beginning to wonder whether a little bit of tailoring has been going on or whether they are inconsistent in production, which accounts for so much love/hate that goes on with them.
I quite like the weird headphone and was thinking of keeping it for myself and get another for the student!! Don't tell him.......
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Jan 11, 2015 19:19:00 GMT
is the isolation on these any good, Ian?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 11, 2015 19:27:56 GMT
The isolation is very good Simon, as long as you can get a good fit on the head. The cups are enormous but as they warm up, they seal better. Pleather but very very soft so they mould around your ears.
In spite of all the criticisms that fly around concerning the K550, they are a damned good headphone. The cups are huge so they are comfortable. They seal well as long as the cups aren't too big for your head. Some complain about sibilance, but I find mine ok. The bass is extremely low, with much less quantity than the D600, but the result is an extraordinary clarity for a closed headphone, that almost sounds like an open headphone with very deep bass.
Poor recordings sound nasty with them. They will emphasise edginess, but good recordings sound amazingly full and crystal. They are extremely sensitive so are great for portable use with lower power daps. Give them lots of current and they fly.
In fact, I'm using mine straight from an IPad at the moment and it sounds beautiful imo. It's going for a bargain price at £99 so many of my older students are buying them for monitoring purposes. They're good enough for what they're doing.
Biggest problem for portable is the lead which doesn't come off and is too long. If it had a short lead option as in the K551, they'd be perfect for me. I wrap the lead around my body and up through my sleeve if I'm wearing a jumper in the garden.
Having bought a few now, I suspect quality control could be why some complain of a thin, mean sound. Mine are quite lovely. Both modded and I modded.
One curious thing about them is if you bang your teeth together, the headband does have some kind of resonance which I do suspect means that some resonances could creep into the sound. In fact it's quite lively when you do this test, but just don't grit your teeth!!!
Frans has an amazing filter for people that don't like the treble peak that it has. It's subtle when you compare, but enough to make a lot of difference for some. He actually fits the electronics inside the cups!!!
They are really worth the money when you hear what you can get with the X1, a good recording with no amp straight into them!!! At a cost of say £80 and £99 which is £179, the sound is terrific.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Jan 11, 2015 19:53:31 GMT
if you had to chose between these and denon 6oo's?
from what i have just read the k551 addresses the cable length issue. these are available for similar money.
this internal filter from Frans is really interesting. i assume this would still fit in the 551 as i believe the cups are the same. i like what i am reading about the "open" sound on both of these models.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Jan 11, 2015 20:05:00 GMT
took a chance and bid on a set of these!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 11, 2015 20:22:57 GMT
if you had to chose between these and denon 6oo's? from what i have just read the k551 addresses the cable length issue. these are available for similar money. this internal filter from Frans is really interesting. i assume this would still fit in the 551 as i believe the cups are the same. i like what i am reading about the "open" sound on both of these models. Horses for courses, Simon. For me the relative accuracy of the K550 is preferable if not as entertaining as the d600. While I do like the d600, I am aware that it's as coloured as a bright red rose. It's an entertaining listen. The k550 is kind of underestimated imo and I think it's to do with perhaps a poor seal or inconsistencies that affect the bass. It takes a few minutes for the pads to sink down and seal. Perhaps people don't wait for them to fit properly? Mine gives a deep bass that is quite awesome for a £99 headphone. It's not as loud down there as the D600 which is also very deep, but imo, it's more balanced. Some find it thin. Put it into a Polaris or Ember into it and it will give a lovely sound. I raise the output impedance for them though. It shuts down noise issues and warms it up. I was thinking about the K551 because it's more suited to portable, but not sure whether sound is the same as K550. Most of the students I teach love them for monitoring at that price level. Admittedly, some like the Grado sr225 as an open headphone, but I think mostly for their 'fun' aspect. The Sony mdr7506 is also one that some like, but I find that one just too edgy for pleasurable music listening. The K550 has the technical capabilities of the Sony and is as revealing, but is warmer and so easier to listen to for longer periods. The 551 looks like it has a slightly stronger peak at 10k but not as wide as the 550. My goodness ...... You don't hang around do you?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 11, 2015 21:38:46 GMT
Indeed not all K550 are created equal, nor are HD800 for that matter.
The K551 = K550 with shorter cable and remote control. The drivers and housing is the same AFAICT
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 11, 2015 21:49:45 GMT
What's a bit concerning is that the difference wasn't that subtle, Frans. I can hear a real peak at around 100 but it goes very low and leaves the mids alone.
Don't think I can give him mine, it's too marked. I might order another for me I think.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 11, 2015 21:56:58 GMT
The differences between various K550's (improvements while producing) range from sharp sibilance peaks to palpatable but all seem to have that peak. In the mods I did the peak is removed by using felt. This makes it too dark sounding so an electronic filter corrects this again. The fun part of this filter is that the effectivity of it changes when the output R changes. This way you can 'tune' the amount of bass when you have an amp with various output resistances. The mods are pretty popular (mostly thanks to Tyll) and have been downloaded over 12,000x already. The K550 and K551 also differ in colourschemes. They are excellent for monitoring as they are very 'flat' yet extended. Not as much fun as some other headphones.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 12, 2015 20:14:20 GMT
I've held on to this one for another day Frans. It seems to have a little more bass weight for sure and so 'seems' less sibilant. It really is rather good. I'd say very involving actually since its timbre is very natural.
I've been thinking that I must be imagining it really, but the differences are there although it's difficult to tell exactly what is going on. It just sounds more 'complete' and sounds like a full spectrum of sound rather than this kind of 'false' timbre with raised treble that sounds like a cracker snapping. It just seems more balanced from top to bottom.
I wonder whether the one that Tyll had showed the same traits? He really liked his and got a bit of back chat for it from some people. The bass is rather good in fact. I never felt that with mine. Or have AKG been quietly tampering?
They are good monitor phones actually. Tough. Clean (mostly). This one is clean but has something more 'organic' about its sound. I just wish the cable would come off and that they could have made a higher impedance version.
I may buy another one I think.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 12, 2015 20:17:44 GMT
I saw new K551's going for E 99.- ! They were the white versions though, I guess they don't sell that well.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 12, 2015 20:26:12 GMT
You can get grey for nearly same in pounds. www.amazon.co.uk/AKG-Reference-Class-Over-ear-Headphones-Microphone-silver/dp/B008T9RI90/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1421094024&sr=8-2&keywords=K551Not sure I like having a volume control hanging on the lead though. If it sounds like this, it's a really good buy imo. I've been listening to it all day and don't want to give it to the student tbh. A closed headphone that sounds natural and open!! At last. I wonder if the K550 has been tweaked following the development of the K551. Being portable, they may want to appeal to the serious kid but they would demand a raised bass. Maybe using same driver configuration has passed it on to K550? It's raised, but not by a lot. It just seems to balance the top much better and yet the mids aren't sucked away. It's a way better headphone than I remember. Recent AKG 'head jewellery' headphones have shown enormous bass for this market but they have paid with a very recessed mid. They don't work as well for the first five minutes, until the pads bed down properly and warm up. I'd say slightly better than K612. This K550 seems 'right' to me and makes me think my old one was a reject!!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 13, 2015 17:33:02 GMT
K551 on its way so I'll compare. The K550 went to its new owner today. All I can say is, it was a good 'un. Deep bass that didn't creep into the mids. Less jangly top end and extremely involving.
I have everything crossed now for this k551. I'm concerned whether it's a quality control issue or 'developments' at AKG perhaps following criticisms of the k550.
We can compare notes Simon.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Jan 13, 2015 19:09:13 GMT
K551 on its way so I'll compare. The K550 went to its new owner today. All I can say is, it was a good 'un. Deep bass that didn't creep into the mids. Less jangly top end and extremely involving. I have everything crossed now for this k551. I'm concerned whether it's a quality control issue or 'developments' at AKG perhaps following criticisms of the k550. We can compare notes Simon. i missed out on the 550's mate. i am wondering, based on what you have said if i should get the 551 instead. or at least a brand new 550 as oppose to used, that way it may be a later/improved model.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 13, 2015 19:19:53 GMT
Well, I have found it a bit odd. Now I'm worried about the K551 being a dud. If it's a slight mod made quietly by AKG, then that's fine, but if it's just consistency, then that's more worrying.
If I'm honest, most headphones seem pretty good in this respect but the difference here was something that just rounded off the music more. The student has got a really good headphone. It's pretty flat with a slight hump, but the deep bass is jaw dropping. It's not fat like the D600, but boy, does it go low. I was listening to some electronic music that gives these extremely low rumbles and the K550 was playing them with ease, whereas other headphones played it quietly. It has a lot more going on down in the low bass than its given credit for. It's also really clean bass.
The hardest part is the seal. The pads take a few minutes to warm up and settle. Then you get a true seal.
The only thing I don't like about the K551 is the blasted volume control. Then again, the K550 lead is a pain too. But the sound is way beyond £99 as long as they're consistent.
I didn't realise you went for a K550. I always worry with second hand from anyone hi fi .... Have they pulled it apart and messed around? New 550 or 551 is around £99 anyway so it's not massive money. Certainly a good one sounds quite profound and if that's what Tyll was listening to, I fully agree with what he said about it. Many went on to get one and then had a bit of a go because of two things:
Lack of bass. Shrill treble.
The one I had didn't show this at all
So now, I hope the K551 shows similar traits as the K550 that has gone to an adult student. (Lucky devil) he got it without VAT and will claim for it on his tax as well!! So it was truly cheap for him.
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