|
Post by chris1967 on Jan 15, 2016 10:26:40 GMT
The "problem" with the DAM implementations are that everyones is different and even closely made ones, have sonic differences.
Mine at the moment, is identical to dimdim's (vref mod capacitors and smd resistances added, also removed the rectifier bridge) although the dissimilarity is the different electrolytic on the Salas (i changed that also since the last picture you see above), different trafos, and different power supply wires from Salas to board.
Yet, it does not sound the same, it sounds considerably different and i might add toward the worse compared to his.
I have been very busy before Christmas and abroad, so now that i am back i am going to look into the matter.
Of course with dimdims help.
I will post pictures of my findings, also dimdim has made an input board and remote control input switching plus volume, together with multi function screen which i will add shortly.
Overall i think this DAC is a good exercise in diy, with good sound although as i said before there doesn't seem to be a generally accepted universal or reproduced sound from this dac due to its extreme sensitivity to everything (and not only the power supplies implementations, even enclosures alter the sound to an audible degree).
If you are looking into diy with very good sonics but mainly you want to find out for yourself the differences due to supplies trafos etc this is a good project... if you are looking into getting the best sonics for your money please look elsewhere, it might be frustrating. I think overall mine sounds very good and i have yet to hear a better at the price of the cost of materials used, but i have spent a considerable time on it reading and building going to meets etc. This was the fun most of all.
I am not familiar with the DIYINHK ladder kits, i agree it might be a good place to start for a modest project, but i sincerely doubt they will outperform the DAM, even in its simplest form, my opinion of course i might be wrong, but if i am then those kits might be the bargain of the millennium... unfortunately the Soekris DAM isn't.
It is my main dac (now also my only one since i gave away to friends and to my brother all the other projects i had made) and i am still happy and listening to it on a daily basis.
|
|
|
Post by chinook9 on Jan 15, 2016 16:31:20 GMT
Hello Javier and Chris!
I will definitely pause in my pursuit of the Soekris and take a look at the DIYINHK possibilities without ruling out the Soekris completely.
I like the DIYINHK stuff and am presently using an isolated DIYINHK USB to I2S in my Buffalo. I've already started checking out the PCM1702 and AD1862 designs. I'll do a lot more research and see if there is enough information out there to provide the guidance I would need.
If I can't find enough guidance to help me build either of the DIYINHK DACs, I could always buy a Soekris and start with the most basic build. I think that can be done with a trafo, the DAM, and a USB powered USB to I2S converter. Not sure, but the basic build might also require a 3.3 volts supply to the DAM. This would be easy but adds a bit to the cost.
A major problem I have found when researching the Soekris is that almost everyone has modified them and I have to try and decipher what applies to the basic (plus power supplies) build I am interested in.
The weather in Arizona has been colder than normal this winter so at least I have plenty to do indoors.
|
|
|
Post by chinook9 on Jan 17, 2016 15:31:13 GMT
Have been doing a lot of reading the last two days. I'm not only trying to decide between the DIYINHK and Soekris DACS, I'm also trying to determine which I might be able build with the greatest chance of success.
The reason I was able to build the Buffalo was the excellent documentation available (including many photographs in posts) and the help provided by Javier and Frans. There is some documentation on the Soekris and a lot of information in the various forums and blogs but almost all of the Soekris have been heavily modified so what I'm reading doesn't seem to help much with a basic build. As far as the DIYINHK DACs, there is very little documentation and almost nothing on the forums....of course if I could read Cantonese I could probably find a lot. I can probably figure out the DIYINHK boards by looking at them but I'd have to buy them to be able to do that.
I'm also reading everything I can find on Salas, DIYINHK, and Twisted Pear power supplies. The Twisted Pear Placid power supplies appeal to me because they are flexible and I have experience with them but they are also the most expensive.
In the next couple of days I'm going to summarize all the information I have found and try to make a decision.
Chris, do you think you still like the Soekris if it wasn't modified?
|
|
|
Post by chris1967 on Jan 17, 2016 17:43:00 GMT
My question is why do you want another dac, and what are your inspirations?
I never built a Buffalo because i think it has artificial sound and quite hot on the treble.
The Soekris for me is a stop gap before i buy a hiend dac (such as Rockna wavedream i like very much).
If it is just for the sake of getting more experience in building i would definitely recommend it as i said before.
If you are looking for a modest/spartan build to be a giant killer, this is not the way to go (there are no giant killers in the first place).
The simplified version with just a trafo might be good for you (make shure you use a high quality trafo).
The simple regulation is a step higher, and the Salas shunts even better.
If you are more comfortable with the twisted pair shunts, by all means they are surely better than simple lm 317/337.
The modifications need not be done if you are happy with the result, and the only person to be satisfied is you and only you, dont get caught in this constant modification route.
To tell you the truth i was always happy, and the only reason i did the vref mod is because dimdim did it for me.
|
|
|
Post by chinook9 on Jan 17, 2016 18:09:56 GMT
Hi Chris! I'm considering another DIY DAC for something to do this winter and to try something new. I get satisfaction from building/repairing/modifying things and I'd also like to see what some of the other DACs sounds like.
I believe my taste in stereo equipment may be different than many (I like/enjoy the AKG K812 more than the LCD-3) and there's a chance I may like/enjoy an R2R DAC a little more than the Buffalo. Either way, I figure I will be challenged, I will enjoy building it, and if it works, I'll get satisfaction from the success.
I have thought about starting with the Soekris and a good trafo and then taking it from there. I could even pull the power supplies from my Buffalo try them with the Soekris.
|
|
|
Post by chris1967 on Jan 18, 2016 12:55:22 GMT
I think you should give it a go.
After all if you dont like the sound of it with a trafo only you can sell it off.
I am sure you are going to love it though.
The other thing is that it seems to sound better on haedfi rigs than stereo speaker rigs.
If you are mainly a headfier this is going to give you that extra lifelike experience through your K812's or your LCD-3's compared to your Buffalo, also quite a bit warmer (at least it was so with the initial firmware).
Happy building!!
|
|
|
Post by chinook9 on Jan 18, 2016 16:15:00 GMT
Thanks for the input Chris.
I only listen to headphones nowadays. I still have my speakers and the rest of the system back in Colorado but I almost never listen to it. I just go down into my "man cave" and listen to my headphone rig(s).
Unless I find additional information that changes my mind, I expect I will give it a shot. Right now I am trying to decide if I would pull the USB to I2S adapter & power supply from my Buffalo or just buy one for the Soekris.
I would probably go DIYINHK if I buy another one but I'm not sure if an isolated adapter is needed? If not I could buy non-isolated XMOS DSD DXD 384kHz and save $40. I believe its the one you have in one of your earlier posts.
Another option might be the USB powered Amanero Combo 384 ($90 in the US) but its not isolated and I'm not sure this adapter is trouble free from Windows 10.
If I order from DIYINHK I could also order one of their cheapo $14.95 3.3 volt power supplies, if needed for the USB adapter, just to get me going.
I still haven't figured out if the Soekris requires an external 3.3 volt supply connected to the isolated side. If needed I expect I could take this from the USB adapter.
One great thing about this hobby, I have stayed quite busy reading and learning for a couple of weeks now and it hasn't cost me anything.
|
|
|
Post by chris1967 on Jan 18, 2016 21:25:40 GMT
Correct, i have the non isolated usb to I2S adapter, isolation is not necessary because Soekris has I2S isolation on the main board.
Yes, you can use the 3,3V to supply the main board, from the usb to I2S supply of the board.
I would recommend the best possible supply on the USB to I2s receiver, but surely you can use a cheap one to get going and see if you like the sound of the whole thing.
A Salas Reflector-D is costly (although it wont break the bank), it is a much easier build than the Salas Bib's, and worth it in any build present or future, particularly digital supplies.
|
|
|
Post by chinook9 on Jan 18, 2016 23:13:11 GMT
I am reading a lot to determine if I want to try an Amanero. If not I expect I'll go with the non-isolated from DIYINHK.
I checked into the Group Buy on the Reflektor D that closes the end of this week. The price in the US is $60 + $8 shipping which is great but I probably wouldn't get it until late February or possibly March. I'll probably order one anyway.
|
|
|
Post by chris1967 on Jan 19, 2016 7:22:51 GMT
Great!
Just have to mention that the DIYINHK xmos driver is a little dodgy on win10... you need to go through the non signed driver procedure to install it, and at times you have to reinstall it. No big deal but had to mention it.
|
|
|
Post by chinook9 on Jan 19, 2016 16:29:32 GMT
Just got off the phone with Soekris (US) and I have a decision to make. They have the Rev 2 boards .05% at $195 but at the end of February or early April they will have the Rev 3 Boards available in the .02% version for $265.
Do you, or Dimitri, have an opinion on if it would be worth the wait. I have read that the Rev 3 board will have an additional component (capacitor I think) but not sure where or why. I'm probably more concerned that they have the software filters improved in the Rev 2 version than anything else but then I'm pretty ignorant.
|
|
|
Post by chris1967 on Jan 19, 2016 16:44:57 GMT
Just got off the phone with Soekris (US) and I have a decision to make. They have the Rev 2 boards .05% at $195 but at the end of February or early April they will have the Rev 3 Boards available in the .02% version for $265. Do you, or Dimitri, have an opinion on if it would be worth the wait. I have read that the Rev 3 board will have an additional component (capacitor I think) but not sure where or why. I'm probably more concerned that they have the software filters improved in the Rev 2 version than anything else but then I'm pretty ignorant. I think it is best to wait for rev3, because it has the capacitor mod on, which Dimitri kindly did for me. These are his pictures but mine looks identical. Also small smd resistor in place. it is best to get the board with these mods built in than do the very tricky job yourself. Of course the rev3 board has smd type caps on.
|
|
|
Post by chinook9 on Jan 19, 2016 16:58:05 GMT
Great, Thank you. I'll check and see what I can get done while I wait for the Soekris Rev 3. If there is enough compatibility with the power supplies I may just go ahead and get one of the R2R Boards that Javier recommended and play with that until I can plug in the Soekris when it arrives. Not sure thats possible but I'll check it out.
|
|
Javier
Administrator
Digital bytes
Posts: 986
|
Post by Javier on Jan 19, 2016 18:56:04 GMT
IIRC DIYINHK includes building instructions in his kits and board interconnection should be straight forward if you use one of his USB adapters which I'd strongly recommend if you finally decide to get one of his DACs. Flat ribbon cable to USB, SE analogue output (+, - & GND) plus PS inputs, that is about it. All delicate SMD components come already soldered in place and the rest are easy to work with TH parts.
Most of these old R2R chips use old formats like LJ/RJ, EIAJ or "strange" I2S variations due to MCLK/BCLK limitations which his USB adapter do provide. The Amanero board does support some of these but it was designed for modern I2S and may no be able to provide the required format.
This R2R board are NOS so I also recommend upsampling in the PC to the highest support rate (by both USB adapter & DAC, typically 8x or 352.8/384KHz), Foobar can do 4x but there are other free players capable of 8x (AIMP) or you can use higher quality commercial alternatives like HQPlayer (costly but excellent).
|
|
|
Post by chinook9 on Jan 20, 2016 3:21:24 GMT
Hello Javier!
Glad to hear that they include instructions. I could probably figure it out but instructions provide some comfort and save a lot of time.
I had planned to use the DIYINHK USB adapter. I used their isolated model in the Buffalo and it went without a hitch. Would I need the isolated model for their PCM1702 DACs? I hadn't thought of that previously and had been planning to get the non-isolated model that comes packaged with the DAC kit at a discounted price.
Presently doing lots of reading to decide on power supplies and transformers to matched.
I have been using Foobar at 192K. I did a quick download of AIMP and tried it but I had a problem (Windows 10) so I'll have to check on that later.
|
|