Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 30, 2013 8:45:36 GMT
Some jazz I really like, others I can take or leave. I looked at 'Jazz at the Pawnshop' which I do like. It's also superbly recorded with just two mics on location. It turns out that there are more than one version of this album and Solderdude pointed out that it has a really wide dynamic range if you get the right version!! He pointed out a great site that gives you some idea of the quality of the recordings that you can ask about. diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/music/jazz-2/jazz-reviews/I looked up Led Zep albums and got a surprise. One of them comes out really quite well!!
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Post by puffin on Apr 4, 2013 17:56:05 GMT
I like "weird" jazz. To explain...I like anything that has a Jazz tinge/slant/angle to it. I started life as a teenager loving Jazz-Funk/Fusion...Blackbyrds, Kool and The Gang (before Ladies Night etc) Ohio Players, Alphonse Mouzon and also the early Grover Washington and many many other obsure and unheard of stuff (Imports - $!!! Kerching1)
My favourite tracks of all time are Rhyme Tyme People - Kool and The Gang, Sweet Sticky Thing - Ohio Players ( the full 9 mins) and Streetwave - The Brothers Johnson.
Recent stuff I am listening to is anything that has a jazzy tinge, be it Disco, House, Dub, Ambient or just jazzy!
Tokyo Tower, Alien Cafe, Alien Chatter, 7 Dub, Guerilla Dub, Gota Yashiki (Simply Red's drummer - yes, really) love his reggae/jazz tinged Dub, Naoki Kenji....Ooh and my favourite Ambient tune is Talking To Myself - Electribe 101 (Canny Remix 7 minute mix)
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 4, 2013 19:06:38 GMT
I never really had a great deal to do with jazz tbh until I worked with a drummer called Trevor Tomkins. He was an inspiration to the say the least!! A drummer who was a great communicator and was one of the people responsible for the teaching of jazz at Trinity School of Music. Imagine ..... a professor of jazz!! Especially in an institution that wasn't always receptive to the idea of rock/pop/jazz music. He was part of a team that devised a course for music students there. My first love was Chick Corea. Another modern group I found interesting was E.S.T. However, one of them came to an untimely death so that was the end of the band. 3 or 4 really good albums from them.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 5, 2013 21:08:58 GMT
I know very little about jazz save to say that I like (some) trad jazz but very litte modern stuff. I was introduced to Jazz at the Pawnshop (thanks Mick ) and loved it. So any erudite and educational monologues on the subject (Ian?) would go down well with me. Cheers, Dave.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 5, 2013 21:33:26 GMT
Jazz is a scary thing for me Dave. That feeling where the band are playing a backing and off you go to do an instant composition!! It's very difficult to do well and in a coherent way.
It's quite a specialist area actually.It tends to not have mass appeal either. Hi Fi people like it I guess since it's a smaller combination and tends to be around an acoustic set up, so it's possible to get beautiful recordings of it and maybe the appeal is more the quality of the recordings?
Pawn Shop is very high quality; especially considering how it was recorded but there are also some terrific playing on it as well. I enjoy that CD a lot.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 7, 2013 10:37:49 GMT
I'll keep this anonymous but the person who told me about. 'Jazz at the.... ' spelled it 'Pornshop' - maybe that was what got me interested? . Dave.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 7, 2013 11:52:59 GMT
Aha.......... Jazz at the Pornshop is Tango music from Argentina. It's origins are connected with brothels of old over there. Music while you work kind of thing.
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 7, 2013 22:03:18 GMT
Some jazz I really like, others I can take or leave. I looked at 'Jazz at the Pawnshop' which I do like. It's also superbly recorded with just two mics on location. It turns out that there are more than one version of this album and Solderdude pointed out that it has a really wide dynamic range if you get the right version!! He pointed out a great site that gives you some idea of the quality of the recordings that you can ask about. diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/music/jazz-2/jazz-reviews/I looked up Led Zep albums and got a surprise. One of them comes out really quite well!! I have the 30th anniversary hybrid SACD version and it looks like from the DR readings that the CD layers are slightly less compressed than the SACD layers. I really like this album quiet a bit. Not just for the sound. I like jazz because you never know where the composition might go. But some goes a little to far and becomes discordant. Is that the word I am looking for Ian? I was wondering if most people feel that Big Band "Swing Era" music is jazz in the way were are using the word here. I know my grandparents considered it that "dirty music". ;D Maybe they thought it was Jazz at the Pornshop too. Ian, which Zep album was it? Hello to all, Ron
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 8, 2013 4:54:17 GMT
Hi Ron,
That's usually the issue between perceived sonic differences with SACD/DSD and red book CD or other formats. They deliberately mess with masters, usually in a subtle way, but just noticeable so they can justify the difference in price.
This remark from Purrin is 100% true:
The right mastering job of a recording will affect sound quality 100x more than the difference between 16/44 and DSD and 24/192.
I also like the pornshop CD (check the DR ratings), also like Amy Winehouse (live) as well.... Jazzy. I'm more of a blues(rock) and pop fan though but as Ian already stated the recording quality for a lot of Jazz albums is usually outstanding.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 8, 2013 7:25:09 GMT
but as Ian already stated the recording quality for a lot of Jazz albums is usually outstanding. I think a lot of that has to do with what it actually is, Frans. Being mostly acoustic is a great advantage, since it allows the music to 'breathe' more in the room. With electronics, it's often 'DI'd' which means the sound is recorded direct from the instruments. ie: no acoustic information whatsoever and then an acoustic is planted over the top. What that means is that the musician has no 'real' acoustic to 'play into.' They don't just play notes, but timings and phrasing are often adapted to the acoustic. That will tend to make jazz sound more 'musical' on recordings. One artificial reverb I was playing into was appalling once - it was like playing in a church type acoustic but on the end of notes, it planted a 'flutter' like the old 'room reverbs' that used to be used in analogue days. Frank Zappa used one - like a corridor which produced a reverb, but a side effect could be this horrible flutter, although Zappa never got it. I don't think) You sometimes get it by clapping one loud, sharp clap in an empty room. You hear the clap more than once! The dynamic range is wide on many jazz recordings. However, not so wide that compression needs to be applied to heavily so if it contains less compression on the whole so if it can be captured properly. With less electronic manipulation (like reverbs), you will get some lovely clean recordings like Jazz at the Pawnshop! The engineer used just a stereo pair for that recording. Ron, I can't remember which Zep album it was - if you go onto the site from DIYAH, Frans has put it on the front of the Music section. It's surprising and one of the later albums from Zep comes out as better 'quality' than the others. I'm not sure but it might be 'Houses of the Holy.' Not brilliant, but better than the others. I really like that site. You need to look for the box to type in the album or artists. It's not obvious. A VERY useful resource to help pick some of the better recordings.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 11:58:49 GMT
I like 'Jazz at the Pawnshop' too, and most of the standard stuff like Miles Davis (yes, even Bitches Brew ), a bit of Coltrane, Mingus,etc. I know I'll probably get pelter's from the jazz purists about this one (cause I believe they sometimes use samples ), but my favourite jazz is the Esbjorn Svensson Trio. I just love their fresh approach - (ducks behind sofa)
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 8, 2013 12:09:19 GMT
My favourite is that wonderful trio as well. Pity about the guy passing away so you in that accident.....
I saw Miles Davis a long time ago and if I'm honest, I was a little bit underwhelmed.
For a start, he seemed to have a lot of 'attitude', often turning his back to the audience and I found his soloing slightly irritating in that it never seemed to get going!!
He also went through an electronic phases -was it in the 80's where he produced some what I called, 'thuggish' jazz. Rock rhythms and hard hitting but didn't do it for me. Was it 'Tutu'? (the first one and then there was another)
I know that the album was received well at the time, but I found it slightly boring!! I think it was also to do with squeaky clean CD production at that time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 13:45:47 GMT
I saw Miles Davis a long time ago and if I'm honest, I was a little bit underwhelmed. For a start, he seemed to have a lot of 'attitude', often turning his back to the audience and I found his soloing slightly irritating in that it never seemed to get going!! Yeah, I think he listened to his own press a little too much.
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 9, 2013 0:50:16 GMT
Hi Ron, That's usually the issue between perceived sonic differences with SACD/DSD and red book CD or other formats. They deliberately mess with masters, usually in a subtle way, but just noticeable so they can justify the difference in price. This remark from Purrin is 100% true: The right mastering job of a recording will affect sound quality 100x more than the difference between 16/44 and DSD and 24/192.I also like the pornshop CD (check the DR ratings), also like Amy Winehouse (live) as well.... Jazzy. I'm more of a blues(rock) and pop fan though but as Ian already stated the recording quality for a lot of Jazz albums is usually outstanding. Agree 100%. I have a decent size SACD collection. Many I also have in the original 1980's era CD format. Many are better, some are not only worse, but terrible. My Elton John SACD's from the 1970's albums are a great example. I don't need to measure the DR. I can hear the compression, sometimes to the point I pull my headphones off and grab the original. One the best examples of how mastering and recording make the biggest difference is Eric Clapton Unplugged. The CD is one of the best live recordings I own. A reference for me. I hope if they ever do make a hi-rez version they will just use a straight transfer. Perhaps they haven't because the differences are too small to make it worth it. Great to see all of you here, Ron
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 9, 2013 17:23:11 GMT
Great to see you back too, Ron. Been all go while you've been away!!
One the best examples of how mastering and recording make the biggest difference is Eric Clapton Unplugged. The CD is one of the best live recordings I own. A reference for me. I hope if they ever do make a hi-rez version they will just use a straight transfer. Perhaps they haven't because the differences are too small to make it worth it.
A lot of people use this one as a reference. Even John Grado used it when testing his own headphones. He actually returned an email to me when I contacted him once!!
It's this acoustic thing again I guess. The DR stays within certain limits so can be portrayed nice and cleanly.
The 'Unplugged' series kind of went out of fashion didn't they? I really liked them a lot.
One I thought was good funnily enough was 'George Michael'. I couldn't find a copy of it afterwards either, but I did like the arrangements although I'm not fussed about him really.
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