Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 25, 2015 7:37:34 GMT
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Post by ronzo56 on May 25, 2015 9:09:27 GMT
Ian. Have you fallen off the headphone wagon? haven't' heard them but the price over here is already about £65 higher than Amazon.co.uk
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 25, 2015 11:34:29 GMT
Hi Ron. Been very quiet on here. I think everyone is having a holiday!!
The Spirits are nice. They make nice speakers actually. The Classic is aimed at home listening and so is more 'forgiving' in sound. I'd say, similar actually, to an hd600 in sound. Not too sharp up top. More emphasised bass than the pro. Pro has a good slam though.
The Pro is less forgiving and is good at being more analytical, which is why I compare them to the Sony 7506. They're very analytical, but I think the Focal is a bit better and less grating.
Tight on the head and quite small ear cups but very good sound wise. The tightness helps with isolation and bass, so if you don't get a good fit, the bass fades away. The bottom goes down a long way but isn't too loud.
Ok for pro use, but there are doubts going around about quality of build on the frame. Mine seems ok, but I think the arms can get stressed and crack. (Not too many cases thank goodness). I think the ones that crack may have been stretched by people who find them tight when new and try to speed up the stretching process. Same with Senns. The paint cracks if you stretch them too much as well. You'd think a pro headphone should be like a tank though.
The lead is very long at 4 metres. Enough to hang yourself. You can easily make a new one though or even use a cheapo jack to jack. Pretty good for detail.
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Post by ronzo56 on May 25, 2015 12:47:50 GMT
Hi Ian,
Yes very quiet. Weather getting people outside maybe? I'm noticing also a lot of gear for sale and no buyers around. A couple of months ago seems like things were selling quickly.
The Focal Spirit Pro is off my list for sure. My "melon" is on the large size. Sounds like my head would be in a vice grip. An issue I had all my life with headphones. Besides, I think I'm reaching a happy point with my headphone collection at last. HD650 w/SeNNator, HD800 for a lot of classical and well recorded jazz and blues, and sometime soon a Paradox. The Beyer DT-1350 (a good pair) for private listening and I am set. Still debating what to do about my LCD 2r2's. Mods, RMA to Fazor drivers? A purchase I am starting to regret.
Maybe summer will be this place back to life. 4 days until a little freedom for me!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 26, 2015 10:58:20 GMT
Well, I've had the headphone for a week now and even done a mix down with it. I was surprised how well the mix down worked out as well. If anything, I had a slightly raised bass level on the final mix, listening on speakers. I think that's because of the bass on the Spirit not being at all emphasised but very precise. It also reacts well to eq so if you raise the bass, it doesn't turn muddy.
I think this is possibly one of the best closed headphones I've heard in terms of sound signature. At least for working with. Checking between speakers and headphone showed a very close resemblance. The headphones sound like small monitors like the Yamaha hs8 although you get the advantage of room response for the bass.
Treble doesn't go up into the gods (I don't think). It's smooth in the top end. Bass goes low but I can't hear any real humps and it goes quite low. Trouble with that is that I suspect that for home listening, this doesn't show the 'bloom' of a home headphone so it might be perceived as thin. Mids are spot on. Excellent for a closed headphone. So presence is lovely and treble/bass easily controlled by using volume properly.
Subtleties of timbre and say guitar amp being used really show well, with good separation between instruments. Listening to Robert Cray shows just how much his amp does for his sound as well as the guitar. You kind of detect the 'electronic' quality of his amp quite plainly. Also electric piano shows this.
Cymbals and high hats don't soumd 'tizzy.' You can easily separate the sounds of different cymbals.
Too high with the volume and it can turn quite hard while too low covers the deep bass. Bass might sound 'overdamped' to some. Quite constrained. Maybe that's the reasoning behind the Classic which is designed for listening at home. It's a bit 'fruitier' sounding.
A pro headphone isn't really worn for prolonged periods and is designed to pick out detail rather than make things sound 'nice'. So a poor recording will sound bad on these. There isn't really a bass bloom to smear over the sound to make it pleasant. They show it easily. Because of that, parts are easily distinguished and separated which is the purpose of a monitoring headphone.
So they really do the job well actually. Way better than the Sony 7506 in terms of evenness and fr. The Sony is great for picking out treble detail/distortion but does put a bass bloom on the sound with no reall deep bass. Theses have deeper bass with no bloom, so they actually sound like they have less bass while going lower .......
Over the week, the pads have settled to my head shape. I now find them very comfortable and can wear them for long periods whereas, they were a bit tight at the start. Now they feel right. You can adjust the pressure since the cups don't swivel freely. You can move them and they stay there, so pressure can be evened up around your ears. I get the top of my ears into the cups and drop the cups. Then I lift the bottom of them and drop them again before I swivel the cups left and right. That way, the pressure is really evened up and the seal is brilliant. Memory foam in the pads makes them really quite nice to wear once you get them right.
The booklet warns you not to push the cups together, back and forth because the pressure could break the cones. Apparently, they are very thin which is why transient attack is very good. They are a vey fast sounding headphone without being harsh. Distortion shows up ruthlessly as I found on my Robert Cray album. A sax solo was recorded at slightly too high a level so peaks just edge into distortion. This isn't so obvious on many other headphones.
So, imo, a great closed headphone. For anyone wanting a more a more hd600 type sound, the Classic might be better, but I actually like the analytical properties of these.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 13:50:32 GMT
Nice review Ian. What's the isolation like? I need something I can use in bed without annoying the wife.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 26, 2015 15:07:34 GMT
Isolation is very good Gordon. I could easily use these to work with if I was still working. There are two things though .... The Classic might suit better since it's warmer and more like a hi fi headphone. More Senn like. The Pro is pretty flat sounding so I can see people missing a heft in the bass. I love the clarity but then I'm fairly used to the Sony 7506 sound for working with. (For monitoring, not playing into) DT150 for playing into. The 7506 has quite a sharp top but also a little ramp in mid bass. No deep bass really though. The Sprit Pro has deep bass if it's there. If not, it really doesn't plant a rosy bloom on top of the sound. The Classic warms sound up a bit. The cups are fairly tight and small. Once you find a good place, they're fine, but some have a problem. If you're using them just for thirty minutes to an hour, probably fine. Longer than that could be difficult. I find them ok, but I noticed people warning about it. I've had mine on for over two hours this afternoon and I'm ok with it. Great monitoring headphone though tbh. I love the inner clarity and 'clarity' you get, but I can imagine some finding them 'cool' sounding and unremarkable because nothing seems to dominate the overall sound. You notice poor recordings or nasty files immediately. You don't with Senns anything like as much!!
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 15:56:45 GMT
Thanks Ian.
I owned the V-Moda M100's and they were a bit snug too. I sold them & didn't really think I'd miss them but there's definitely a need - at least in this house - for a pair of well isolating headphones. Any thought on what Sennheiser's might fit that bill?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 26, 2015 17:21:39 GMT
I suppose the hd250 Gordon. I prefer the Beyer DT250 but a takes some driving in comparison to some other headphones. It's better with a portable amp. Quite a neutral sound. I no longer have one here but I think I prefer the Spirit Pro. It gives a lot of detail.
Trouble with a secondary headphone is how much use it would get and is it worth the cost of big money. Or at least big (ish) money.
Closed has always been difficult for me. Most have quite distinct colourations which I don't really like in the long term. It's difficult to find a flattish closed headphone.
Hd25 can be painful on the ears and a bit sharp in the top.
If you're using it for short periods, then small cups wouldn't matter. For me, I wanted something closed that is as neutral as I could find that doesn't need too much to drive it. The dt250 is neutral but not as sensitive which is why my search continued. The Spirit is sensitive so I don't need to amp them, but they do scale up pretty well. In fact, a good recording sounds top notch. Trouble is, bad ones are painful!!
I use closed sensitive cans in the garden and around the house, so I've had cheap ones planted in various places and I've tended to hover between them so that the sound sig doesn't have long enough to get on my nerves.
The best I have is the modded Philips. Neutral with unbelievable bass. Not as sensitive as the Spirit but terrific sound. Spirit is more analytical than the Philips and kind of dissects music pretty well. Perhaps the Classic is better suited for most?
I don't know why, but I think I prefer a slightly more analytical sound with a raised bass. The bass is better lower for me though. Not raised mid bass, so that bass guitars kind of 'belch' rather than 'rumble' at you. I find that with the Senn HD650. With the filter, you get that low 'belch' and without, it is a bit thick.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 20:27:00 GMT
You'd think the industry would have nailed it by now. There's got to be a market for a closed-back, sensitive, isolating & cheapish headphone.
The Spirit Classic is way too expensive for what I'm looking for because you're right Ian, it won't be used all that much.
To be fair, I guess IEM's do most of what I want but I've never yet had a pair that were truly comfortable & secure.
I had a chance of a brand new pair of DT150's for £80 but I don't think the Clip+ will drive them well enough.
Oh well, the search goes on.
Gordon.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on May 26, 2015 21:34:37 GMT
Closed, good sounding and in a low price range with decent isolation ... modified Philips Uptown.... Can be driven by a clip but not extremely loud.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 26, 2015 21:50:56 GMT
You'd think the industry would have nailed it by now. There's got to be a market for a closed-back, sensitive, isolating & cheapish headphone. The Spirit Classic is way too expensive for what I'm looking for because you're right Ian, it won't be used all that much. To be fair, I guess IEM's do most of what I want but I've never yet had a pair that were truly comfortable & secure. I had a chance of a brand new pair of DT150's for £80 but I don't think the Clip+ will drive them well enough. Oh well, the search goes on. Gordon. DT150 won't work. Not sensitive enough. The Philips will work, just. The Spirit Pro and Classic will work. I've tried it. What about the Creative Aurvana Live? The first version is better than the second. Not neutral though. Entertaining. I agree.... Closed headphones are a minefield. Most are crappy. That's why I went for the Spirit ... Still expensive but basically neutral (ish). Perhaps on the bright side. Subtle bass that goes low. (Less bass than the Philips modded) real clarity and quite revealing. I'll be using them in a home studio eventually for monitoring. They are a very good headphone in all honesty. Just ruthlessly revealing. Tonality problems can be compensated for to some degree with adjustment to volume. The Spirit focuses quite low up to mid loud. On some recordings, very loud might be a bit too hard sounding for some. I've no idea why the Classic is quite a bit higher than the pro. Both have very thin drivers so are fast reacting headphones with what looks like a difference in voicing. I felt that the Classic was more Senn like in sound. The pro is a little more cutting so you feel as though you are getting more detail. It is very natural sounding though. Amazon is currently putting them out at £159 with post or £161 from Amazon EU. That's the lowest they've been so far. I've been tracking their prices on them. Another choice is the Sony mdr7506. That gives a very analytical sound which, if I'm honest is not as accurate as the Spirit pro but is useful for occasional listening at £64. Can be edgy, with a raised mid bass but lacks real depth down there. Get the volume right though and they snap into focus with a realism that can be surprising in spite of the treble peak that it has. Some can't take the peak, but I find critical control of the volume for impact/focus reduces it greatly. They also work quite well as monitors but I wouldn't use them for mixing. Basically, there isn't a lot of choice in the closed market.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 23:46:25 GMT
I had a chance of a brand new pair of DT150's for £80 but I don't think the Clip+ will drive them well enough. You and Ian are right Gordon, the Clip+ will not drive them. I know because I just tried them on my Clip+/NX-1 combo, and it was lacking. So if if the NX-1 cant drive them (at 250 ohms IIRC?) then a Clip+ on it's own has no chance. Would you have anything against buying second-hand? If not, then I could absolutely recommend two headphones. Closed back, comfy, both 32 ohms (IIRC!), so easy to drive from the Clip alone. First is the Sony ZX700. Lovely headphone, I liked it so much I eventually bought it's big brother, the ZX1000, and TBH I'm not sure the extra outlay brought THAT much extra SQ. Diminishing returns kicked in hard. ZX-700
What Tyll thinks . . . Or the Skullcandy Aviator. Again, closed back, easy to drive, and comfy. Don't let the name put you off, this is a genuinely good headphone, even Frans liked it! S K Aviators
What Tyll thinks . . .
BTW, I get NO 'wind-noise', either inside or even outside!! You should be able to pick up either of them for not a lot on the bay. And one final thought. Why aren't you amping the Clip with an NX-1? I guarantee you'd love it. NX - 1
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 0:25:34 GMT
Thanks for that Jeff. The ZX700 does look good eh & from Tyll's opinion they might be worth tracking down. I know the Skullcandy Aviators are supposed to be good but I just couldn't. What if I die in my sleep & they find me with those on? Credibility shot tae f***!
As for amping well, no. I used to use an E18 which sounded superb but the whole point of the Clip+ for me is it's size and adding an amp just goes against logic.
I'm contemplating taking a punt on refurbished PX 200-II's to see what they're like. I really love my PX 100-II's so they might be OK. It's weird though, when you look at the reviews of both the open-back 100 is know to be a bit bassy whereas the closed-back 200 is said to be a bit lightweight in the bass. Kinda flies in the face of logic. Not that I want more bass than the 100's but it's odd all the same.
Thanks for the input mate. Food for thought.
Gordon.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 0:35:25 GMT
What if I die in my sleep & they find me with those on? Credibility shot tae f***! I wear mine regularly, so I've got nae chance !! Credibility?? Mine got "shot tae f*** " when I ripped all my CD's to a wee plastic box behind my sofa!!
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