Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 15, 2016 10:10:37 GMT
Thanks Howard. I love Baroque music myself. (As well as many other things)
I've played that oboe concerto many times and it was one of the pieces that I performed at the Royal College of Music for my ARCM!!
Interesting because it's labeled as Concerto in D minor, whereas the performance is in C minor if you listen and work it out. I have perfect pitch, so I don't have to work it out!!
The reason is that pitch in those days was lower than it is today. We tune to what is called A=440 cps nowadays. In those days it was lower. So what was a D minor concerto has been transcribed for modern players into C minor. I've played both versions. It also meant that strings were tuned with slightly slacker strings compared to modern violins etc., so the sound was a little softer and more relaxed, although Baroque composers felt that the 'modern' violin was quite a loud instrument in comparison to the viols of the previous age.
This would have been a very modern concerto since it is for one soloist and not a group. (Concerto grosso = group, concerto solo = one soloist) That was a new idea which led us into the Classical period; or at least, one new idea. I'll start a thread on Classical when this one has run its course and of course, of anyone wants to leave Baroque stuff on here, that's great!!
I believe that knowing a little about these early pieces gives a better insight into modern music, since even rock/pop stuff, (certainly progressive music which is what I ended up playing) uses ideas from the orchestral world. Not by pinching the tunes, but by using the construction ideas. In spite of what people think about their favourite genres, they are all kind of interlinked and most are quite unaware of that.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 15, 2016 19:03:36 GMT
Cimarosa is 'Composer of the Week' on Radio 3 every day this week at 12:00 and 6:30 pm.
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howie
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Post by howie on Feb 16, 2016 0:03:10 GMT
I only really came to like Baroque music when I turned 40. I think it's great for evaluation of equipment with all the interweaving tunes and different timbres of instruments. At the moment I'm really enjoying Handel's Trio Sonatas-so imaginative, fresh and energetic-nobody listening to them could say Classical was boring.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 16, 2016 7:01:04 GMT
For me Howard, it was Brahms. I think it might be because as a student, I played so much Baroque music and in the 70's, there was a kind of revival of Baroque instruments. I tried an oboe designed the same way as a baroque instrument and noticed how totally different the instrument felt in comparison to modern instruments.
I had two oboes, one was an old pre war Louis, which was one my old teacher used to use. That one had a really strong, 'trumpet like sound and was useful for modern music like Mahler or Stravinsky, where you needed more power sometimes. In Mahler symphonies, the oboes are sometimes directed to lift the bells and point them at the audience, so my Louis was very loud!!
Then I also used another for more delicate stuff called a Marigeaux, which was a French instrument. Great for Baroque music.
Both the Louis and Marigeaux needed quite a lot of pressure to make sound where, the Baroque oboe that I used was more 'flabby' to blow. It meant that I could play for a lot longer without collapsing into a heap. That probably accounts for why many oboe parts from the Baroque period can be difficult to play just from a stamina point of view. Modern oboes need much more pressure.
If it were electricity, modern oboes have more impedance and would need more voltage whereas the Baroque oboes would need more current!!!
As modern listeners, we tend to instinctively plant moods onto music, where Baroque music is less like that. It was regarded by the composers more as a 'craft' than an art and so could be learned like a normal job.
A little background knowledge helps a lot with the listening; especially if you know the constraints that composers were working with. Even in modern music, there are self inflicted constraints or else we'd have chaos. Even in pop/rock music, there are rules.
Because I was classically trained, I fitted naturally into progressive types of music since it uses so many conventions from the orchestral world that I instantly recognised and identified with. I think that's probably why I still identify very much with progressive music now. Not to mention the potential difference in wages!!
I still love Baroque msuc as well though.
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howie
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Post by howie on Feb 16, 2016 8:30:04 GMT
Ah-whenever I think of Brahms and the oboe I hear those hauntingly beautiful opening bars of the 2nd movement of his Violin Concerto. My greatest disappointment in life is not being able to create music. Too lazy-easier to listen, that's my excuse anyway!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 16, 2016 9:55:26 GMT
Unfortunately for me, music is the ONLY thing I can do. That is very frustrating as well actually. You kind of 'want' to be able to do other things.
So really, for me there wasn't anything else and I always felt limited in other ways. Also, when it comes to working, it's really not that great. You end up being a hassler for proper contracts where people won't pay properly and many jobs can be quite mundane in reality.
I've always hated touring and being away from home. That is costly as well and eats into your wages very easily. Not to mention the hours of practice that you have to do on anything 'tricky' that's coming up!!
As a hobby, it's great but a job is another thing altogether. Illness is a no no. Especially in pop music, no one can easily replace you once you've learned the programme. So if you're ill, you have to keep going.
While teaching a couple of years back, I fainted and had a very frightening panic attack. Lots of things going on and I was booked to do a Summer stint in Tenerife, which was lovely. I felt like a dog's dinner but had to see it through since it's not good to be breaking any contractual arrangements.
Although I loved it there, I came home exhausted tbh and it takes me much longer to recover nowadays. What makes me laugh about pop stuff is that quite often, the 'pretty boys' are put up front and can't play, while the ugly gits like me stand at the back playing the music. The only thing is that they have a short burst as a career and the old gits go on forever (at least it seems like that) and we all re-meet in so many different things along the line.
Although I was classically trained at the RCM, I was nearly thrown out for having the cheek to play pop music!! In those days, the RCM seemed to despise pop and yet, that's where the decent money was!!
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howie
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Post by howie on Feb 16, 2016 12:33:59 GMT
Yes I'm sure it's a tough profession, and I'm certain you were also an excellent teacher. So much pop music though is derived from Classical-my daughter was playing some Radiohead when she came home for Christmas and I pointed out to her several strands of Bach in the music.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 16, 2016 12:42:02 GMT
Bach turns up in many funny ways, Howard ....
I'm not sure how I feel about these though tbh.
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howie
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Post by howie on Feb 18, 2016 17:41:22 GMT
Wow-I quite liked the Air but the Fugue-not for me. Definitely prefer the 18th century versions. Nursing a sore tooth socket just now after an extraction this morning. I fancy a bit of lively Telemann to cheer me up. At least the wife won't trouble me, she's gone to the hairdresser.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 18, 2016 18:08:08 GMT
Sorry to hear about the tooth Howard. I've been very lucky with mine.
I've played a lot of Telemann; especially as a student with an ensemble that was formed in the 70s called the Albany Consort. It was run by a harpsichord player called Jonathan Salzedo and he ended up emigrating to the west coast of USA. California, where he still works now, I think.
One of the players that was very highly regarded when I was a student was Heinz Holliger who was technically amazing, although I wasn't ever that keen on his tone. He was a great player though ...
I think this might be Jonathan as he looks now on the harpsichord, playing in a live concert...
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howie
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Post by howie on Feb 18, 2016 19:15:13 GMT
Thanks Ian-I'm going to settle down with a nice whisky and listen to both those videos. In fact I read you should sleep propped up after an extraction so that's a great excuse for me to stay up all night resting on the sofa listening to music. Cheers
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 18, 2016 19:41:16 GMT
Holliger had a reedier sound than I liked, but he was very popular.
I played on a pre war Louis oboe, which had quite a 'trumpety' sound, which was useful for romantic and modern music. For Baroque, I used a French instrument made by Marigeaux which produced a reedier sound and was less powerful than the Louis.
Another nice Baroque composer was Marcello. Great oboe concerto.
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howie
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Post by howie on Feb 18, 2016 20:47:51 GMT
I love that Marcello oboe concerto, didn't I post it the other day?- I'm all confused with this bleeding tooth socket! Oh and the Albinoni is a favourite too- actually I like all oboe music-it's that mellifluous melancholy tone that really gets to me.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 18, 2016 21:12:56 GMT
Yes you did, Howard. You posted the second movement.
There are so many solo and grosso convertos from the Baroque period; many transcribed for different instruments as well.
I'll never forget the brave music teacher who faced my Dad to get him to allow me to learn. Dad didn't even know what an oboe is.
I was also tempted by the bassoon. I heard one play Sheherezade with this wailing melody that really attracted me but the expense of buying one was too much.
The worst thing about it though is that if you go into pro playing, the work isn't there for many. So you'd be encouraged by the school only to face a life of real difficulty in finding work unless you really spread yourself out. Yet the RCM in the 70's were quite strong in not allowing students to play pop music and werre only reluctantly accepting jazz!!
Even Wagner was considered bad because of associations with Hitler!!! Amazing how things change with time.
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howie
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Post by howie on Feb 18, 2016 21:44:31 GMT
I recall when I was about 15 going with my older brother to a 3 hour performance given by the Welsh Opera in Liverpool of Rheingold. There was no interval and I can still remember how sore my bum was at the end. It was torture and I've never really liked his operas since. The orchestral music is great though. I know the guy who plays bassoon in the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. He tells me the bassoon is the joker of the orchestra and he's the most miserable, gruff old sod you could ever meet. We are very lucky in Glasgow having a lot of orchestras, ballet, opera but to tell the truth I spend more time at home now listening to music as I can be in the perfect seat, without noises and children annoying me and don't have to park the car. The best value is the Scottish Conservatoire (formerly the RSAMD). Some of the students and masterclasses are brilliant. There are lots of competitions and I can get my favourite middle of front row seat (I don't like sitting anywhere else for small scale music) for about £5. I'm rambling on but my tooth feels better for it-I think it's time for the Lindsays and Schubert's String Quintet with my new massive 6A6 tube in Ember. Oh nearly forgot, Poulenc wrote a nice oboe concerto too.
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