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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 14, 2017 0:15:01 GMT
Forgot to mention - the 12AU7 is the ideal gateway drug to tube rolling ecstasy.
Perhaps we could petition Frans to design and Jeremy to release a G1217 Octal amp for 6SN7 rollers. One with auto-bias, 12V tube support like Solstice, super-charged 1A+ heater supply with a discrete class A output.
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Post by mvneufeld on Dec 14, 2017 1:18:07 GMT
Hear hear! That sounds like a great idea for an amp.
The 12AU7 was definitely my gateway drug -- I had a Bravo for about a month before I knew I needed something stronger. The first time I listened to a TS 6SN7GT I knew I'd gone to another level - like going from 2D to 3D. That said, I still listen to 12Au7s from time to time -- they work better for me than 6SN7s for a lot of 70s music (Little Feat, anyone?).
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Post by luckbad on Dec 18, 2017 7:43:17 GMT
Forgot to mention - the 12AU7 is the ideal gateway drug to tube rolling ecstasy. Perhaps we could petition Frans to design and Jeremy to release a G1217 Octal amp for 6SN7 rollers. One with auto-bias, 12V tube support like Solstice, super-charged 1A+ heater supply with a discrete class A output. A stock octal pinout seems to directly contradict the design goals they have. First is versatility, which the socket sorely lacks (6SN7 and 6SN7 tubes only, pretty much). 6SN7 tubes are becoming scarce and are already incredibly overpriced as it is, significantly cutting into the value proposition of the amps. But, they do offer a really excellent adapter (that I have and am happy to use). I've explored an ungodly amount of tubes at this point. Heck, the Eddie Current Super 7 uses 7x 6SN7 tubes and sound fantastic, but that amp is what has made me curse the name of whoever caught onto the goodness of 6SN7 tubes and started making the prices skyrocket. I wouldn't definitively say that 6SN7 is the best tube type out there. It's somewhat ubiquitous and available, though the good ones (as I mentioned) are becoming less common and overpriced. There are quite a few really great 9 pin tubes out there as well. Some are great but at least as overpriced as 6SN7s like the best of the 6DJ8 family: Telefunken E88CC, Amperex 7308, 6N23P (some are becoming expensive), Siemens. But there are also some great options out there in the format that are quite affordable. I actually love the new production Electro-Harmonix 12BH7 and 6H30Pi tubes, as well as old 6N6P tubes. Readily available, reliable, great sound. I had a Telefunken in my Sunrise earlier when going back and forth between my Cavalli Liquid Crimson just to compare the same tube. Sounds great. So does the Amperex 7308 PQ that's in there now. But, since the Sunrise/Horizon is a high value, bang-for-the-buck type amp for me, I'll eventually switch back to the 12BH7 or 6N6P. If you want to really improve the sound quality of the Horizon or Sunrise, look into getting a good linear power supply. For the cost a Telefunken E88CC, you can get an LPSU that will improve the sound with every tube you throw at it. I have a Keysight E3617A that works with both the Sunrise and Horizon, and it can be had for $200-$250 on eBay for a tested unit. It sure isn't a looker, but it works unbelievably well. The Bimby/Sunrise is really the work rig but it's home for the weekend. I don't drag that giant linear power supply to work. Sometime in the next week or so, I'll be building an atomicbob Noise Nuke, which is a power choke to reduce ripple and noise for the incoming power.
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Post by ronzo56 on Dec 19, 2017 5:41:55 GMT
Very nice looking set up. I think I might have that same LPSU. Must be a coincidence. Really does make the Horizon III sing more. Need to try it on the Ember and Sunrise II.
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Post by mvneufeld on Dec 19, 2017 16:39:45 GMT
Hello Solderdue, if you're out there... You commented on the SMSL Sanskrit 6th Anniversary recently. SMSL has a better DAC - the SMSL M8A 2nd - that I'm thinking about getting. It has a better DAC chip than my Sanskrit, and also better USB implementation. Any opinions on the ESS9028Q2M DAC chipset? Thanks!
Luckbad - you're quite right that an amp with a 6SN7 socket would be far less versatile. It was just a thought - it would be nice not to have the adapter (although Jeremy makes a fine adapter). And you're right that there are other good tube types. I just got a Amperex 6DJ8/ECC88 that I really like, my EH 6H30Pi is also a very good tube, and I still listen to 12AU7s.
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solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
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Post by solderdude on Dec 19, 2017 19:08:38 GMT
I am usually a bit weary when talking about DAC chips. IMO it is not so much the DAC chip itself that is important. Most of them perform closely the same anyway.
More important is the used filters (both digital and analog post filtering), the PCB layout and power supply. That is very hard to determine based on pictures.
My remark about the anni version was based on how the analog filter was built (component choices) and the used DAC chip. SMSL makes excellent DAC's for a low price for sure. Personally I would only change to a higher priced DAC if I needed the extra functionality it offers.
Don't fall in the 'quoted numbers' trap. Those numbers all are way below the audible treshold and none of them reach a real world resolution better than 22 or 23 bit anyway.
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Post by mvneufeld on Dec 19, 2017 20:47:10 GMT
Thanks for the reply - Basically I'm pretty happy with this SMSL Sanskrit - I don't have any issues with the USB input and the sound quality seems fine. (The mids in my music seem a bit muddy, but I'm breaking in some new HD650s... )
There is one other thing I was thinking of getting myself for Christmas - a Breeze Audio 15W Linear Power Supply for $50. I've read that getting an LPS is a good idea - would you recommend it? What benefits would it bring?
(Thanks to Lobalwarming for advising on this, too)
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 19, 2017 21:26:59 GMT
Thanks for the reply - Basically I'm pretty happy with this SMSL Sanskrit - I don't have any issues with the USB input and the sound quality seems fine. (The mids in my music seem a bit muddy, but I'm breaking in some new HD650s... ) There is one other thing I was thinking of getting myself for Christmas - a Breeze Audio 15W Linear Power Supply for $50. I've read that getting an LPS is a good idea - would you recommend it? What benefits would it bring? (Thanks to Lobalwarming for advising on this, too) Just to keep my tarnished reputation for misleading info intact, I didn't specifically recommend a measly 15W power supply. Altho I may have implied this G1217 LPS prototype for future expansion needs.
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Post by mvneufeld on Dec 19, 2017 22:28:32 GMT
Frans, just so you know, that wimpy little LPS I ordered is for the DAC, not the Horizon! I should have made that clearer.
I'd love to have an LPS for the Horizon. Can't afford it...
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 19, 2017 22:33:52 GMT
Thanks for the reply - Basically I'm pretty happy with this SMSL Sanskrit - I don't have any issues with the USB input and the sound quality seems fine. (The mids in my music seem a bit muddy, but I'm breaking in some new HD650s... ) When you say it's muddy...in comparison to what? With what source material? Muddy Waters tracks are supposed to sound like that. While there is some break-in with the 650s...not much change in the mids. Perhaps in comparison to other phones with high frequency peaks, the 650s can be perceived as dull/muddy(ish). But it's just a perception. Take two placebos and call us in the morning. The beauty of the 650s is that despite the seeming 'dullness' or veiled or as I hear it proper smoothness, they resolve low level detail extremely well - and allow one to hear 'into' the music in a relaxed natural way. As opposed to many other phones with unnatural peaks and dips that smack the ears with unpleasant artifacts - that seem at first hear as detailed, but long term are just bright and unnatural. Having a 2nd DAC to compare the muddyness with would be interesting - I suspect the mud is from further up the chain tho. Or at the very end. Subjectivity is just too subjective sometimes.
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Post by mvneufeld on Dec 19, 2017 22:49:58 GMT
In comparison to my previous headphones. Definitely, some of it is that I'd been listening to the Horizon with Sony MDR-V6s for a month, and they were so bright (and fatiguing). The sound signature of the HD650s is much different.
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 19, 2017 23:14:08 GMT
Sony MDR-V6?!! That's a huuge sonic culture shift. You may want to seek 3rd party auditory counseling - if it's not too late. Used those in the studio for tracking - brutal elevated mids with no highs and no warmth. Can't imagine selecting those for 'pleasure'. LOL!
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Post by mvneufeld on Dec 19, 2017 23:46:49 GMT
Yeah, they are brutal, but hey, it was the Sonys and a Bravo headphone amp that got me started down this path.
I just popped out my RCA 6SN7GT grey glass and rolled in an EH 6H30Pi and things sound less veiled. Maybe that's the answer - judicious tube rolling to ease the transition.
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 20, 2017 0:02:35 GMT
Great idea. Tube rolling fixes everything.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Dec 20, 2017 5:59:26 GMT
the LPS for the DAC will work fine. The Horizon needs a more beefy one for sure to accomodate for the start-up current. HD650 and warm, not very tight bass/mids .... check.
How the hell did lobalwarming end up with prototype shots of the never to be released power supply ?
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