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Post by Cranky on Mar 22, 2018 17:54:50 GMT
I've decided to just go ahead and buy the Superlux HD681 from Amazon UK because after postage they're cheaper than Thomann, and at least they have an easy-going free postage return policy in the event of a faulty product. From what I've been reading about the velour earpads from Thomann, they appear to be similar to the ones supplied with the Samson SR850 which I did not like, so I'll just buy some from China in the hope that they'll be better.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 22, 2018 20:24:33 GMT
The ones from China (at least the ones I bought) work fine for the HD681-EVO as they loose most of the bass. Below the Chinese K240 pads (Wang_Yifei) vs the velourspads from Superlux = K240 pads Bass is completely removed by those pads. Difficult to say if the ones you ordered are similar to these or different.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 22, 2018 21:56:42 GMT
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 23, 2018 5:51:36 GMT
Yep those... He used to sell them as K240 replacement pads.
Perhaps the HD681 now comes with more supple pleather pads. The original one had quite stiff (not supple) pleather pads. Later models use much softer pleather. Perhaps the HD681 also has the newer pleather pads... don't know.
do you have a link to washable covers... I made covers myself back then but switched to K240 pads.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 23, 2018 14:05:44 GMT
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Post by Cranky on Mar 26, 2018 17:14:58 GMT
Be warned. Those damn headphone covers do not conform to the description on the Amazon posting. It gives the maximum size as 13cm, yet I only just managed to get it onto the Superlux HD681 (just arrived), which has a diameter of 10.5cm. It's so tight that on the first attempt it pulled the ear-pad right off!
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Post by Cranky on Mar 28, 2018 17:09:24 GMT
I received the Superlux HD681 yesterday and after submitting them to ten hours of loudish pink noise, I can detect no change whatsoever.
I made a number of edits later in the day as I became more critical.
Firstly, the fabric headphone covers that I bought made these headphones incredibly uncomfortable due to pressure on the ears so I ended up removing them, and after doing so the headphones sounded more open.
The stock vinyl earpads are quite soft and comfortable, so I assume that's due to the later revision. I don't find the highs excessively harsh, but it's undoubtedly bright and could do with a touch of taming. Detail is good and sound-stage is reasonable. However, the bass is far too powerful for my liking, spoiling the overall sound and hitting unpleasant levels of distortion, but which improves when the bottom of the headphones are pulled slightly away from the ears or reduced with an equaliser from 110Hz downwards. What these headphones have managed to do that my others have not - including the Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro - is to expose distortion in some of my MP3 files (levels too high and over-compressed) as well as my mixes.
I'm sure I'll notice other things in time to come.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 30, 2018 1:08:39 GMT
I've now been persisting with these HD681 headphones for many hours over the last three days and have become progressively critical of them. Not only is the bass uncomfortably loud, but both it and the low mids are exhibiting blatant distortion. Despite my erstwhile criticism of the DT880, they sound far more pleasant, painless and less fatiguing than the Superlux. As for the highs, whilst playing 'Theme from Route 66' by The Nelson Riddle Orchestra, the Beyers clearly reproduced a ride-cymbal being subtly tapped, whereas the Superlux barely managed it. There's little subtlety about them; in my opinion, the pair I have here is just a less brash version of the Samson SR850.
After spending most of the day listening to a large selection of music on the HD681, switching for a moment to the DT880 was like a breath of cool air on the ears. I should add however, that the vinyl ear-pads of the HD681 are soft and comfortable, causing no irritation, even after running a fan heater in the room.
Alas, they will not do and, like the Samson SR850, will need to be returned. Incidentally, I was expecting them to arrive in a hard blister packet, but it was actually a sealed cellophane one. Is this normal, or would it suggest that they had already been returned?
I was looking through Hans' reviews of headphones and my attention was drawn to his findings on the Beyerdynamic DT250 with their rather flat frequency response. After scouting through various forums, I can not recall anyone saying a bad about them, but instead being full of praise for their sound quality and ability to translate well when used for mixing.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 30, 2018 4:56:46 GMT
The HD681 need a filter to sound 'good' It lowers the bass and removes the harshness from the treble. Even with filter they sound a bit 'coarser' than the latetst Superlux models.
These never came in a box. Just a piece of cardboard with tightly pulled plastic around it. It reflects the price point...
The DT880 is better to me as in more refined but lacks bottom end as well as having too much treble peak.
Looks like the newer HD681 have better pads now. As these are thicker as the earlier ones the sound will differ as well and probably be slightly less bassier.
The DT250-250 is really used for monitoring and is not a hi-fi phone. It is quite uncomfortable over the long run as the clamping force is very high. L and R can have substantial tonal balance differences due to its construction. Also, while being tonally very balanced the treble is not 'refined' but a bit coarser. Not elevated... just not refined. A bit like the DT150 with DT100 pads.
Both are very suited for studio usage and less for hi-fi usage.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 30, 2018 9:39:36 GMT
They're not a really 'refined listen tbh. One thing (you've probably tried though) is what you're describing is kind of like a headphone sound that is too loud. Elevated treble and bass with distortion present.
It suggests listening lower volume might be better.
I find with quite a few descriptions of headphone sound (not measured) that I get the same as the person describing it at certain volume levels.
For instance, the treble of the dt990 is a problem for many people. Not so much for me as long as I am listening at a low level. The hd650 is sometimes criticised for being too laid back ..... turn it up and it blossoms.
I find more and more that headphones 'focus’ at different volume levels but we have taught ourselves to listen at one level that we’ve kind of learned over a period of time.
Try from nothing and just ease up until there's enough mid presence for you. The mids will suddenly snap in at a certain level, depending on the headphone.
Reason I mention this is that the dt990 gets a lot of flack for it's treble but honestly, I love its clarity at low levels.
I used the dt150 for years as a monitoring tool while performing. So much that I had my own one and didn’t use studio ones. Normally, they were eq’d but they were used at live volume levels (so they are rolled off) so that you could perform more realistically without holding back. They went very loud and could also be used as speakers!!
DT250 is great to monitor a final mix because it’s really ‘even handed’ throughout its frequency range. It gives a good impression of an overal mix as it might be heard by someone at home. However, wearing it for long periods can be really tiring so as a comfy ‘home headphone’ I don’t think it’s great. The pressure on the sides of your head is quite strong, but again, it serves its purpose for monitoring.
DT770 is used quite a bit in ‘talking studios’. Big treble clarity and good isolation from microphones for speech. Doesn’t need to be too loud so no bleed into mics when listening. Elevated bass then compensates for a lower level of listening with music.
The DT880 is one that I’ve never seen in any studio. More like a home type headphone I guess.
Beyers are great headphones really, it I think that they are built with certain uses in mind as well. Their build quality is superb. There is a customer for them though that sits in between home and pro use. The HiFI guy who wants that real clarity, but the smoothness of the home headphone without the analytical qualities highlighted depending on what the headphone was designed for.
Btw, Superlux don’t come into this category or even close. They emulate the studio analytical type of sound without real refinement so I guess more for the HI-FI person on a low budget, if you see what I mean.
We tend to learn a kind of loudness level over time which we're loathe to change for different headphones.
Might help?
Dt880 is one that I must try sometime. I had the original and couldn’t get on with it but I hear great improvements have been made since the original flat cup version of years ago.
My own preference with headphones though is to have the bass raised by about 3 or 4 dB which allows a lower volume level and still gives a nice richness to the sound. I also prefer it if the bass carries on, way down if possible. Treble for me is adjusted via volume!! It’s quite surprising how satisfying low levels become once you get used to it. The added advantage is also that distortion is less so overall clarity is improved.
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Post by Cranky on Apr 2, 2018 19:45:50 GMT
Hans: Out of curiosity - and I don't know how valid this is - I emulated the frequency response curve comparison provided by you for the HD681 + filter circuit and K240 velour pads by subtracting the differences with a 31-band graphic equaliser plugin and listening to the effect on the stock pair I have here.
Anyway, the result was far better, but I sensed something was missing, and found that when raising the 6.3KHz band (exactly where that dip occurs) up to where it was originally, a gentle tapping of cymbals on one of my high resolution MP3 files and the maracas on another was re-introduced, together with a little more airiness. At the adjusted (filter) position these were completely missing.
Three tracks that this is particularly noticeable on: 'I'll Feel a Whole Lot Better' by The Byrds; 'Theme From Route 66' by Nelson Riddle & his Orchestra; 'Don't Fear the Reaper' by Blue Oyster Cult. The addition of more air and detail was particularly apparent on 'The Most Beautiful Girl in the World' by Charlie Rich.
Ian: Your explanation with regard to the DT250 demonstrates that the frequency response graph fails to tell all we need to know about good reproduction. I found during my latest bout of research that the response curve for the DT250 is similar to that of the HD681F, yet your experience of both suggests that the former is superior to the latter.
It's not so much a detailed (or even hifi) headphone that I'm looking for, but one which would more reliably provide an uncoloured presentation of the signal applied to it, thus enabling me to achieve a good translatable mix, although being able to use them for general listening for pleasure would be a nice bonus. I've been finding that I have a constant need to adjust EQ (even for individual instruments) when switching between the headphones I have, and when switching to my nearfield monitors.
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Post by Cranky on May 1, 2018 20:50:07 GMT
I've just bought the Superlux HD681F and so far I'm rather pleased with it. I'll report my finding in greater detail after I've used it a bit more.
Frans, does your filter for this headphone reduce only the treble spike and leave everything above it more or less intact?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on May 2, 2018 5:43:25 GMT
yes..
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ghle
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Post by ghle on May 30, 2018 14:17:03 GMT
So, I ordered components specified on this guide: rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/4769Now I noticed you have published guide with different components. What are the differences between these two mods?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on May 30, 2018 15:13:45 GMT
The later filter is based on measurements and hearing. The first iteration (Rock Grotto) was based on hearing only.
I recommend to build the latest version. At least the inductors are the same.
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