|
Post by musicman on Jan 20, 2016 2:44:02 GMT
I have been all hyped up for the 650 filter, for awhile now. Wanted one really bad, but bought a pair of hd 700's and have not used the 650's much now, as these are pretty decent phones. I may still try a filter, but I have already traded off one pair of 650's and if these 700's still deliver the goods, I just may put up the 650's on ebay, the comfort of the 650's is supperior, so at my age who can say
|
|
|
Post by husafreak on Jan 20, 2016 4:15:39 GMT
What is the filter for?
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,886
|
Post by solderdude on Jan 20, 2016 6:03:13 GMT
The filter has plug-in modules that corrects the frequency response for certain headphones. A bit like what the Sonarworks plugin does in a digital way but in pure analog.
Look for 'Kameleon amplifier'. The filter basically is a G1217 alike module that goes between the source and amp input. Don't know if he can make it stackable because of 2 different sizes of G1217 amps and you need to be able to access the filter boards.
When Jeremy doesn't have time to make it I will design it myself... this year.
|
|
Rabbit
Administrator
Posts: 7,091
|
Post by Rabbit on Jan 20, 2016 6:54:54 GMT
It would have you using the HD650 in preference for other headphones. It gives a much deeper bass, takes of the mid bass hump and allows the top end to sparkle a bit more as a result. The HD650 becomes like a top end performer. Imagine deeper bass with less thickness in the sound.
|
|
|
Post by ronzo56 on Jan 20, 2016 15:28:24 GMT
It would have you using the HD650 in preference for other headphones. It gives a much deeper bass, takes of the mid bass hump and allows the top end to sparkle a bit more as a result. The HD650 becomes like a top end performer. Imagine deeper bass with less thickness in the sound. That's a good description of what it does. I am lucky enough, thanks to Frans, to have a Kameleon amp. It really improves the sound of the HD650 as long as you don't turn up the volume too high. I really like it, but not everyone likes deeper bass. It depends on personal preferences as always.
|
|
|
Post by husafreak on Jan 20, 2016 16:24:02 GMT
I did the audiophile thing last night. But no one gets to know how many times I listened to "Fools Overture" from Supertramp's Even In The quietest Moments! At least I picked a good album. I finally decided I like my NAD VISO HP50's just as much as my HD600's. Different and exactly as described by the solderdude.
Edit: Doing it again this morning with the 6n6p an another prog rock sensation, specifically "The Doorway" from Spock's Beard's Beware Of Darkness CD. This is too much fun! I am picking these epic tracks as they blend hard rocking with ethereal acoustic transitions. A lot like last night's session, the HD600 is definitely the audiophile head phone, the HP50 the rocker. They both sound beautiful but while the HD600 excels at soundstage and detail retrieval and rewards critical listening the HP50 is the one that keeps grabbing your attention with great bass and drum drive and slam and a more focused "you are in it" soundstage. Star of the show would be the EmberII with my new 6n6p, whoopee!
|
|
|
Post by husafreak on Jan 20, 2016 16:34:01 GMT
I have some questions about tubes. First, how do you guys read the dang things? Turns out I was not listening to the tube Jeremy recommended (6n6p) but rather the one normally supplied with the amp stock (12au7). The 6n6p is rather easy, Jeremy explained it. I just need to learn the Cryllic alphabet, doh! The other was described as a RCA Cleartop but even with magnification I cannot read the smudges on that tube at all, LOL. Are they part numbers that cross reference to a chart that says 12au7 or does it say that on the tube? Obviously there is a lot to all this, and a pinch of faith Second, Do tubes need much break in time? Because I just plugged in the 6n6p and my HD600's and it sounds just great! I have found over the years that it is best to give audio electronics some time to cook (playing background music) before making a critical assesment. But I have no experience with tubes.
|
|
Rabbit
Administrator
Posts: 7,091
|
Post by Rabbit on Jan 20, 2016 18:01:03 GMT
Husafreak, imo, it's best for your wallet not to get too carried away with tubes. I have tried many tubes with amps and to tell the truth, I struggled telling minute differences. I have seen some people spending a small fortune on different tubes and quite honestly, I think they're throwing their money away. Of course, whatever burns their boat, but just a pointer that might stop you spending.
Some tend to exaggerate differences I think and I do wonder even whether the headphones that they're using would even be able to pock up the subtle nuances that the talk anout. I'm not sure. Sometimes, if you look at the headphone they're using, that can be a bit of a giveaway.
I was using an Orange Globe with my Ember until I noticed quite prominent ringing when I touched the amp. Although this isn't necessarily a sign that the tube is on its way out, I chucked it and put a cheap Jan Philips on. Sounds great.
If I want a bigger difference, I'd stick another headphone on.
Reading them can be a pain. Sometimes an internet photograph might help to indentify them.
Break in is also another thing that I have to admit not really noticing. I've never known an amp to change over time and only one headphone actually changed within 30 minutes from no bass at all to good bass!! That was a Superlux. I thought it was broken and left it playing. When I came back it was fine. I'd just listen to the music and not worry anout any changes!!
While I wouldn't argue with anyone who claims to hear differences with burn in since it really isn't worth worryimg about, but personally, it puzzles me because I've never heard it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 19:18:17 GMT
I haven't experienced any burn-in with valves either but do allow the amp to settle for 10 minutes or so after switching on. Other than that don't worry about it. Like Ian, I don't hear massive differences between valves. Variations exist but they're pretty subtle. A touch of EQ could probably replicate most of the difference. Still, it's fun to collect valves too & sometimes the history can be very interesting.
|
|
|
Post by ronzo56 on Jan 21, 2016 3:37:13 GMT
Have to agree with both Rabbit and solrighal. I have spent too much money on tubes chasing the dragon so to speak. Having said that, some tubes sound better with certain amps. But the differences between them aren't huge. The biggest thing is to check them from time to time for noise as they tend to wear out gradually over time.
|
|
|
Post by husafreak on Jan 21, 2016 8:37:44 GMT
Thanks. Great advice and appreciated. I will admit to being a "set it and forget it" kind of guy. So now while I am excited and striving for the best possible sound I am being pretty critical. So I was surprised that I couldn't tell which tube was which just by looking at them. And I am very glad to hear that tubes don't take 50 hours to break in, what a PITA that would be! That is kind of why I asked Jeremy to recommend a tube to me, he is an expert in the field and I anything but. I am also starting to see how difficult chasing tubes could be, the differences between the 12au7 and the 6n6p are very small compared to the difference between the two headphones. As for hearing differences I feel I am on solid ground when evaluating traditional stereo equipment but with headphones and tubes, not so much! Great sport though, a fun hobby and very interesting to hear the differences but not necessarily in a "one is better than the other" way. I could see myself investing in a few tubes with different sonic signatures and just leaving it at that, just swapping them out from time to time. So far I have not gone too crazy, I just purchased the one extra tube for $20 from Jeremy when I bought the amp. Oh, you have a good point Rabbit about headphones. i don't think the HP50's would be very useful for evaluating tubes. The HD600's would be better in that respect. Getting back to the "filter" and just out of curiosity, how is it different than an equalizer?
|
|
Rabbit
Administrator
Posts: 7,091
|
Post by Rabbit on Jan 21, 2016 9:03:27 GMT
The main thing is to enjoy the music rather than just the gear imo. While I love the equipment that I use, I love the music more and when something that is really well recorded smacks you through your headphones, you then start to realise just what a great job the gear is doing. If you don't get those kinds of moments, then the gear perhaps needs to be changed.
Many lose sight of the purpose of hifi. They get very wrapped up with equipment and it kind of takes over from the enjoyment of music. I know of people who will listen to nothing but hi res files because they claim everything else 'hurts' their ears. That is nonsense imo.
By all means, get hi resolution gear but good equipment shouldn't be stopping you from listening to 'lesser' material. It's entertainment, and I think people forget this. I have a 55 inch hd tv. It doesn't stop me watching home movies, or even movies converted over from the old days of film that I made. The quality is poor, but I still love to watch the films. It's also the same with hifi for me. I love hearing Mario Lanza on my hifi. Recording quality is poor, but the gear doesn't stop me from listening and it shouldn't.
Solderdude's filter are better than using eq in most instances because we don't have units that 'target' frequencies quite so accurately with correct 'width' of adjustment. Headphone frequency response measurements and what we hear are a tricky area. That's why graphs have to be 'compensated' in order to try and show what we should be hearing. Without criticising anyone, some graphs are still not correct. However, comparing headphones on the same measuring gear is perfectly valid because it gives 'realtive' differences. This means that frequencies that might be 'off' could be shown in the wrong place.
Solderdude's rig measures closer to what we are hearing imo. Certainly his graphs depict what I get on head. So if the graph is closer, he is able to 'target' the correct frequency and also, get its width right. Just like a parametric eq device, but accurate. Once he attempts to superimpose an opposite to the frequency response graph that he sees, then what you're left with should be flat.
Not all headphones respond as well as others in this respect though but generally, they are massively improved. It may seem subtle at first but long term listening soon helps you recognise exactly what the filter does for clarity. I found the hd650 a bit underwhelming with the Kameleon off once I got used to its sound.
The downside is that because the frequency response corrections are so specific, the amp is not a generic one and is specialised for your own headphone, unless you change the chip inside, which he has made very easy to do.
It's basically like having an eq set by an expert in the correct places rather than guesswork, so commonly used by hifi people which is highly inaccurate.
|
|
|
Post by techboy on Jan 21, 2016 13:22:20 GMT
Is the Kameleon the same add on filter Jeremy will sell or are the versions by Solderdude and Jeremy going to have differences besides the casing as well?
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,886
|
Post by solderdude on Jan 21, 2016 14:09:35 GMT
They will use the same filter modules, that is the only thing they will have in common.
The G1217 filter will be in G1217 styling, have RCA in and out, a filter-bypass switch, (close to) 1x gain, a power switch that also switches the attached amplifier (so no more power fiddeling in the back). Will work on the 24V or 48V power supply from a Garage 1217 amp (or any other DC suppply between 20V and 70V) and come with a power cable connecting the filter to the G1217 amplifiers.
|
|
|
Post by techboy on Jan 21, 2016 15:02:51 GMT
Will the sound be the same? Will the cost be similar?
|
|