Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Nov 25, 2016 13:43:33 GMT
Well, it's Black Friday and Trinity Audio pulled their prices down. Due to the great sound that I get from the Vyrus, I decided to go one up courtesy of the sale to the Sabre which features a push/pull configuration. Maybe more to mess up the sound? Don't know yet, but the Vyrus produces an excellent bass and if I'm honest, it's sound gives much more expensive headphones a run for their money. If the Sabre is improved, it'll be a real stunner. Mark and I have played cat and mouse over the Sabre so he blames me and I blame him. We're both getting one!! If you're quick, you can still get one using the Headfi code for discount. If you like iems, the Trinity Audio ones seem to be really something. Nice review here ... www.golden-ear.net/single-post/2016/07/25/Review-Trinity-Phantom-SABRE-Push-Pull-Twin-Drive-InEar-Monitor
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jello
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Post by jello on Nov 28, 2016 13:33:24 GMT
Just received mine a few minutes ago. Putting them through their paces before writing too much but will say the earpieces are quite a bit larger than the Vyrus. Fit nicely though and are comfy.
Filter colours are different from the Vyrus and unlike the Vyrus come in two different lengths. At an initial glance I don't think any of the Phantom Sabre filters have dampers in them (tbc) which imho isn't a bad thing.
Wide array of tips, same case and jacks, but this time in addition to the two standard braided cables (one over ear, one straight) there is also a cloth covered remote cable included.
Posting this up for the benefit of Ian and myself so it's handy:
SABRE FILTERS RED = Enhanced bass. Offering a V shape signature while retaining plenty of musical detail ORANGE = V shape signature with slightly decreased bass YELLOW = Neutral + Offering a more balanced sound signature with a very slight increase bass over neutral with a great mid and high range sparkle PURPLE = Neutral - Offering a more balanced sound signature across the frequencies. GUNMETAL = Treble. Offering a reduced bass signature with an focus on upper mids and treble.
(had a quick dabble with the orange & purple filters. Orange sounds horribly bloated to my ears but the purple is quite nicely balanced, although I might like just a touch more sub-bass quantity. Could yellow be a winner?)
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2016 16:28:26 GMT
Mine arrive as well about a couple of hours ago, Mark. Thanks for putting up the filter colours for the Sabre. It is a bit silly that the colours aren't the same as the Vyrus. I'm on the yellow ones at the moment. I started with the Orange and then moved to the yellow because I felt the bass might be a bit too much. There are problems with deciding though I think .....
First choice was whether to use long or short barrels. I went to long ones straight away and then went through every tip. I found it difficult to get a seal. Then to the short barrels and still found many tips wouldn't seal for me, so I went to the Spinfits and found one that was a bit better.
When I got partial seal, I felt the red and orange were fine. On a proper seal, bass was too much. So the barrels and seal are working together and perhaps the big bass ones might compensate for the loss of bass with a loose seal? I certainly found that.
Getting a good fit was very difficult for me. The size of the iem feels quite large in my ears and eventually, I found by using short barrels and a medium tip, I could get the back of the iem behind a bit of my ear which pushed the iem in better. I think fit is going to be an issue with quite a few people; let alone which sound/barrel to opt for.
The fit of those plugs into the capsules is a pain. Way too tight and even in the end, I'm not certain I got mine in all the way. I'm waiting for it to come out and I'll try again then. I think the plugs are a bit duff. Once again, I might reach for the glue I think. The thing is, you are supplied with three cables, but it's such a faff getting them on that once you've chosen, you won't feel inclined to change them.
The body of the iem is a bit large. I guess with two drivers in each, they need to be, For my ears, they are on the large side.
The tips can come off the barrels quite easily if not on really securely. One came off INSIDE MY EAR. It was a bugger to get out. Needs looking at. The fit isn't as tight as it could be and for health and safety reasons, they need to be tighter or more elastic so they stretch and shrink on much tighter.
On the longer barrels, it's possible to easily push the tips right down so that the driver is at the front of the rubber tip. That makes another set of options for fit since the ones that fit with the tips back, no longer fit me if pushed right down.
Bass, once you get a seal is really well controlled but without that seal, non existent. You could well end up compensating by changing the barrel then, like I did, back and forth all afternoon.
As I said, currently, I'm on the Yellow barrels with a good seal (I think) There are loads of fit options which kept me occupied and becoming frustrated for the whole afternoon!!
I'll be honest here .... the Vyrus was a good buy!!
After fiddling around for two hours and making the insides of my ears a bit sore, I have a seal though and the sound is extremely good. Bass is fast and has good slam. If I find it too difficult to keep a seal, then I'm going back to the Vyrus though.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Nov 28, 2016 16:46:58 GMT
Hold on, the purple barrel is ok....
Just compared with my m100 and the yellow is kind of thicker than the V-Moda!! The purple brings a bit more clarity for me.
Edit: can't decide!! It's the seal that makes things difficult for me. It is an improvement on the Vyrus though. I did a direct comparison and it's a little more focused.
The barrels on the Vyrus filters are fatter so they're not useable with the Sabre. That's why I have problems with the seal .... the Sabre barrels are much thinner than the Vyrus.
I went back to the long barrels and a fatter bud with less force inwards and perhaps that seals better for me. It's quite difficult to get a comfortable fit for me. I can either use short barrels with slightly smaller tips but push in hard, to long barrels with slightly bigger tips and push in less!!!
I also wonder whether the two length barrels in the same colour sound the same. I think I might be getting slightly more bass from the longer barrels which means that there are TEN variations of sound plus all of those tips......
The difference in sound may be because with the shorter barrels, perhaps the seal might be less secure.
I'll hit bingo in the end I suppose. Too many choices.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Nov 30, 2016 21:34:37 GMT
The Spinfits work for me but also the larger size of the standard tips. Difference is that the Spinfits are softer but the standards are stronger. Anyway, I have a reliable seal now and ended up with the large tips, on the longer barrel, going between yellow and orange barrels. Orange has a bigger bass which is very enjoyable.
They now sound superb. Better than the Vyrus with a bigger and wider sound. Better definition. The difference in price is worth it as long as the thinner barrels don't bring up fit issues as I found. The Vyrus barrels are thicker so that you feel the fit as solid. With the thinner barrels, the tips need to fit properly in order to support the weight of the iems. There is no 'trapping' of the barrels inside your ears or trapping the body of the capsules against the inside of your ears. (At least for my ears)
So for me, the iem needs to go in less than some others that I use, and I have to allow the tip to expand in order to hold the iem in. Once that seal is made, I let go and the iem barrel is kind of floating with the tip holding it in place.
At first, I found that disconcerting but actually, it stays in place and is less fierce than normal tips on my ears. They become very comfortable worn that way.
As soon as the seal is there, the bass really kicks in and you get the full flavour of each barrel. Problem is, with a partial seal, you could change the barrel to get a bigger bass but that is unreliable because the amount of seal can vary each time you put them in. It is important to get the tip right and then try the barrels. Then it becomes consistent.
With an amp, the sound spreads out even more. A big, wide sound. This really is an excellent iem.
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jello
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Post by jello on Dec 2, 2016 11:44:42 GMT
Great impressions Ian & I agree with much of what you've written - both the good and bad! I'm away for a couple of days but hoping to add some of my own when I get back.
As I'll explain later I have found out that the non-memory wired cables are also good for over ear use. I'd assumed that they were meant to be used hanging straight down but with the shape of the IEMs the only way I can get a sensible fit that way is to swap earpieces around (left one in my right ear & vice versa). Glad I found that out as I find them much more comfortable on the tops of my ears and much like the (wonderful) Linum Bax cable I use with the FX850 the memory wire really isn't needed. Gravity takes care of things nicely.
And despite the comprehensive bundle of extras I have figured out another one that Trinity should be including. A tube of superglue. Getting a bit annoying having to glue **** together.
Needed to vent lol. And putting irritations to one aside.....the Sabre are seriously good sounding IEMs and any gripes quickly fade into insignificance when you start listening to them. More to follow.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Dec 3, 2016 8:06:24 GMT
I use the non memory wires, Mark. Never tried the others because they're inconvenient for stashing away.
I can't wear them downwards that easily either. They stick out because of the angle of the barrels.
That plug arrangement isn't good at all. They're hard to initially get on and then, once on, they become loose! Superglue is going in.
Sound though is way above any other iems that I have TBH.
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jello
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Post by jello on Dec 3, 2016 10:36:59 GMT
Ah, so you've been using the non-memory wires already? Comfort is good with them and they are definitely easier for stashing away. The biggest benefits I find with the memory wires are that they firmly stay put over your ears and if worn under clothing you can temporarily take the IEMs off for a bit and hook them over the neck of your top for safe keeping. Try that with the non-memory and they take a life of their own and next thing you know they're either hanging 2ft down the front or your top or have worked their way inside and have fallen down near your ankles!! The plug arrangement is a weak point and I do wish there was a more positive physical connection when fitted e.g. a click like you get with an MMCX connector or spme sort of screw lock (probably too costly though). It's almost like manufacturing tolerances are just a bit too lax as the plastic parts never quite feel like they match up properly, so you start off with a real struggle to connect them so there is a 1-2mm visible gap and that can lead to the odd disconnect.With time they start to fit flusher but eventually may loosen up which can also lead to more disconnects. And once you get to the point where it annoys you enough to do something about it the glue comes out!! The last bit of gluing was actually cable related too but at the other end. Whilst unplugging the Sabres from the new DAP the metal housing that surrounds the 3.5mm jack came off when I pulled on it and then went up over the spring part and along the cable. Fortunately the wires themselves were still intact so I could remove the gold part of the jack from the DAP but the DAP has a metal guard rail on it that made access a bit trickier that it should've been. Terrible late night phone pic hereVery easy to fix though as it appears the metal housing is affixed to the jack using hot glue so a few spots of the trusty superglue have hopefully fixed things permanently. But these niggles do start to add up especially when you also factor in the issue with the tips, which in some cases can be incredibly ill fitting (had two come out in my ears now) - a one size fits all approach simply doesn't work for a range of IEMs with different nozzle widths. And whilst I can make some allowances with the Vyrus and Sabre due to them offering great SQ whilst also being (relatively) inexpensively priced I would absolutely not be so accepting with one of their higher end IEMs. The more you spend the more your expectations grow in all aspects and without a doubt I'd be exercising my right to return if I experienced these issues on a pair of IEMs I'd just spent a couple of hundred quid or more. I had considered pre-ordering a PM6 during the Black Friday promo but cable concerns got the better of me and my experiences with the Vyrus and now the Sabre make me feel like I made the right choice. Unfortunately until something changes I think this is as high up the Trinity ladder as I'm comfortable going. Pity really as I suspect the PM6 and Hunter might just be a wee bit special. But back on track, the Sabre do not disappoint at all when it comes to how they sound. Easily on a par with the best IEMs I've owned and sound a lot more headphone-like in their presentation than most. Next post will be a lot more positive (I promise!!).
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Dec 3, 2016 11:24:57 GMT
The lead can tangle as well, Mark. I often get it out of the box and end up with a string puzzle. It's lovely and flexible but it does behave like string.
The fit is an issue. Those barrels are narrow so the iem has to sit in the middle of the buds, being supported by the rubber rather than the ears. While that makes them hardly noticeable,when you wear them, they can feel a bit loose. I ended up with the largest tips but only push them into my ear slightly rather than have a deep fit which with other iems makes them lock in solid because of the width of the barrels. These literally have to be suspended.
Dangling them from your neck if they're not glued might mean that you'd lose the capsules I think. Poor design on plugs.
The right angled jack is a piece of crap as well. Mine came apart and inside, the wiring was hair like. Don't like that.
So while they are fantastic value for sound, I think a little bit more spent on wires and plugs wouldn't go amiss. I'd rather have one food wire with decent plugs than the three that they give out with it. Also, not many of those tips work for me at all. Only two.
Funnily enough, what you said about going further up because of these things rings true for me as well, Mark. I'd go no further now, although I think that the higher end ones probably sound fantastic. Change of plug and wire might swing it for me, but the fit ..........
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jello
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Post by jello on Dec 5, 2016 10:44:07 GMT
The cable does tangle a lot. Although I quite like that as I find untangling it quite therapeutic I don't find fit with these much of an issue at all but as I think I mentioned in a PM they seem to fit the dimensions of my ears quite well and the cartilage on my outer ear takes the weight, rather than the tips. I'm lucky I guess but I'd say comfort is even better than it was on the Vyrus. I noticed the following announcement posted on HF (originally from the Trinity Instagram page). Gives me hope that good news is to follow re. the cables. and the other things they have planned could be worth keeping an eye on too.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Dec 5, 2016 19:05:31 GMT
Reading that is very odd, Mark. It reads like Chinese/English which is odd for an English company.
Great if they change the cables, but they also need to alter the plugs so that they lock on better. Don't think it'll be possible with those pins on the capsules which is a shame. Unless they've found some kind of plug that will lock on better for the same size pins?
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jello
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Post by jello on Dec 5, 2016 23:01:47 GMT
It read okay at 2am this morning.....but now you've said that I can't read the announcement without my inner voice doing it in the style of Yoda I have high hopes that the connectors will be overhauled too. I was half asleep but I think someone posted to ask about them and Bob said more will be revealed in the next few days. Whilst not admitting anything he didn't give a flat denial either.....so if that's not a 'hell yes!' then I don't know what is lol. Also think there was some mention of them offering generous trade-in / upgrade offers to existing owners - will have a hunt and see if I can find it. May have been sleep browsing by then and dreaming it... ---- I think I mentioned in the Vyrus thread that my cheapo mobile phone sounded like it might have a bit of a high output imepdance as it made everything sound overly thick and bassy. Well I found the culprit. Hidden away in the Google Play app it seems there are some audio enhancement settings they are applied system wide inc. the Qobuz app. I've never touched them (didn't even know they were there) and in their wisdom it seems Motorola enables them out of the box. And the preset they opted for? 'Extreme bass'.....no wonder the orange barrels sounded so horrid on the sabre!! The emphasised bass did at least paper up some of the roughness in the audio playback though and going back from the Pioneer DAP (returned for a refund today) it's a bit of a come down.
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jello
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Post by jello on Dec 5, 2016 23:21:32 GMT
Bob recently posted more details HERE and there is a lot to read. Not sure if cables detaching at the y-splitter is a good or a bad thing in practice but going to keep an open mind until they have something more concrete to show. Will also be interesting to learn more about the deal(s) on offer for existing customers. At least for the time being it saves me having to worry about returning the Sabre if the cables continue to prove bothersome. Like the idea or not I do think it's to their credit that they're not just releasing a bunch of improved IEMs for sale and forgetting about those who've supported their products in the past (or beta testers as HFM like to call them lol).
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Dec 6, 2016 8:13:31 GMT
Very interesting, Mark. It seems that Bob is reading around and picking up on comments made. Sign of a good company IMO.
I really don't like the cable connection at all. Seems we're not the only ones. I also think that the barrels are too narrow for many people.. it would be nice if they changed that as well TBH, although it might well change the sound.
I was wondering if I could find a piece of rubber tubing to put around the barrels before putting the tips on. That would make them fatter.
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jello
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Post by jello on Dec 6, 2016 11:10:35 GMT
It certainly seems that way Ian. Which I think can only be a good thing for both them as a growing company and us as customers. Resolving the cables eliminates about 90% of my gripes with their IEMs and if I'm honest I'm a bit unhappy I won't have much to moan about Tips could be better but that's easily taken care of. Barrels I suspect might be tricky as presumably the width must have an affect acoustically otherwise they'd all be the same thickness. If the tips you want to use have quite wide nozzles then one way you might be able to fatten the barrels would be to cut out the nozzles from some narrower tips and use those as an extra layer between barrel + tip? Of course if it all goes horribly wrong then you're on your own!!
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