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Post by c61746961 on Nov 14, 2015 21:46:34 GMT
Mod rundownThe set looks like this (there's a suspension band not pictured): I teared the pad flaps the 4th or 5th time I installed them, so I asked someone who can sew to sew a piece of sock to them: Looks a lot like the 'stratopads'.
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Post by c61746961 on Nov 14, 2015 21:50:21 GMT
The baffle looks like this: The stuff doesn't do much besides reducing the amount of air the driver has to push and maybe helping with ear-side reflections, if I remove any layer, the bass drops between 4-8 dB. Behind the purple shower mat is a piece of dynamat, I'm not 100% sure it helps.
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Post by c61746961 on Nov 14, 2015 22:03:49 GMT
On to the insides: I lined the exposed plastic with sticky felt, I doubt it has any effect now. The cuts from the shower mat (made of thick PVC foam) are there mainly to increase the height of the of the cup to allow the make-up pad to sit flush with the rest of the enclosure, the fiber over the cup vents serves the same purpose. The make-up pad is around 8mm thick, made of very dense polyurethane foam (just checked) and infused with vitamin E for Extra awesomeness. If you press one of the sponges against your ear it mutes a lot of the treble. The cut-out sits against the cup vents. Behind the pad lies the bare driver, if the stock paper is still in place you will have to open more holes in the pad or sandwich some very breathable material in there to allow the driver to move.
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Post by c61746961 on Nov 14, 2015 22:11:29 GMT
Sorry for the poato-quality pics, just found out the battery on my camera died and had to use the shitty phone. Pad choice is paramount, here's what happens when I swap the pads for the HPAEC840: Yeah, that looks a lot like the 'Paradox slant'. I now know I wouldn't like them.
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Post by c61746961 on Nov 15, 2015 2:29:15 GMT
I was wondering, have you tried using the HD6x0 pads with the fostex?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Nov 15, 2015 8:10:57 GMT
I haven't because of the way they have to be mounted but could try it with some tape to seal them off. Did try it the other way around though which may at least give us some clues. Using HM5 pads on HD650, not taped so bass levels may be too low when taped on there. Below HD650 with new pads vs HM5 velours padsDo note the vertical scale = 2dB/div and not the more common 5dB/div or even 10dB/div. This is done to see the differences more clearly (for the HD650 article) When I was to guess the T50RP MIGHT get up to 8dB more bass and the 1 to 4kHz region may become a dB or 2 more accentuated which is not desirable in your case. Also the peak around 10kHz may get more accentuated. Below the HD650 with new pads vs HM5 pleather pads. Compared to your T50RP with 840 pads (which are quite similar in response to 840 pads) the HD6x0 pads will show about 4 to 6dB bass reduction. The treble may become a bit more smooth. Hard to predict peaks there though
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Post by c61746961 on Nov 15, 2015 17:31:13 GMT
Yeah, the low-bass retention of the HD6x0 pads looks desirable, they are quite expensive, though.
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BMF
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Post by BMF on Dec 20, 2015 16:30:09 GMT
Hi Frans, I just today came across your article on "how to interpret graphs." Spectacularly informative and detailed! Thank you for the time it took you to explain some of what is evidently only a small part of your knowledge and experience. I've bookmarked the link for future re-reading. Happy Holidays to you and all DIY Audio Heaven members, Keith PS, next up I will read your article about how to modify HD-650. I listened to Dan's HD-650 a while back. He and I agreed it did not sound as good as HD-600 due to greater upper bass-lower midrange FR compared to HD-600. What are your comparative listening impressions on these two headphones in stock form? What adjustments to your HD-650 mods are necessary when applied to HD-600?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 6, 2016 13:48:17 GMT
Has anyone heard or compared the v3 version alongside the v2?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 6, 2016 16:34:19 GMT
I haven't but did make this animated gif: It shows they are tonally different and would (stock) give the nod to the mkIII Still, subbass and treble extension are still lacking. For those owning a T50RP but not having a Kameleon amp and who would like to hear the tonal balance changes it brings about I have made a recording of song with a flat module and with the T50RP module. When the latter is played on a T50RP (with SRH940 pads) you can hear how it will sound from the Kameleon. Of course only with the 2 short music excerpts I have chosen. The files are 7MB each so need to be mailed. When interested PM me your e-mail address.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 6, 2016 17:24:30 GMT
Thanks Frans. Put it up against the NH and you really hear what good value the Fostex is in spite if the lack in extremes. I've been using the t50 with just a change of pads and tbh, really good. Shame they didn't sort out the ends in the mk 3 though. Beautifully flat mids though.
I'm guessing that the v3 comes out similar following mods to the v2? Doesn't look like massive changes on the v3.
I've just noticed that it also looks as though the v3 might seem a bit quieter than the v2 with the rounded mids being flattened as well.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 8, 2016 12:29:23 GMT
I've done a little bit of reading about the V3 and it seems that it can be tweaked although the baffle is differs from the V2. The V2 has a single plate where the V3 has a double plate with a gap between them. Some kind of tuning going on but with the same drivers.
I really like the V2 a lot with just the Shure pads. It has a slightly elevated bass and smooth treble. It sounds as though the stock V3 might also have elevated bass but perhaps a stronger top end.
I'm also curious about the ZMF cowskin pads. They look very nice and would give more space inside for the ears but I do wonder about the effects on the bass. If I fit HM5 pads, the V2 becomes a bass freak. For me, it's too heavy in the bass that way so I stuck with the Shures. I have a feeling that the ZMF's will do the same. Has anyone tried them?
I'll have a V3 here tomorrow to compare with my V2.
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Post by c61746961 on Mar 8, 2016 18:30:15 GMT
There's a few measurements here of various pads on the T50RP mk3. The baffle ports help tame the bass, you have to be careful not to cover them unless you want to apply cup damping as well. I tried the HPAEC840 pads and the lip pleather is too thick, resulting in very elevated bass compared to the stock and a few other pads with tinner pleather. Here's a graph showcasing the effects of covering the baffle ports on a mod I'm working on (stock pads):
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 9, 2016 7:10:28 GMT
That is very impressive. The odd thing about what I've read is that there seems to be no real concensus on what constitutes the best combo of mods. There are some flying around but quite different.
I had heard that the 840 pads didn't work well. The V2 sounds pretty good just with those pads as well.
It looks as though Fostex may have taken in some of the mod ideas and done some tuning, although I'm surprised that they don't seem to have tapped into the low bass that is avalable from these headphones. Curious that there is a 'sandwich' that makes the baffle, so there is like a tuning gap in there now.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 9, 2016 10:36:42 GMT
The V3 arrived and on a first quick listen, it's very impressive. I wasn't aware that it comes with two cables as well. A short orange one with mini jack and a longer black one with normal jack. The orange one looks quite funky and almost luminous.
Looks a bit nicer with the slightly different cup design and padded headband although the pads are pleather still. They are different to the old pleather ones though. They're quite shallow and your ears only just go in there. Some may have problems. The metal supports for the cups are slightly smaller than the V2. The headband is nicer with some padding. I don't know why, but the cups seem lighter in weight, but that may be the pleather pads being lighter than the Shures. The build of these is great. They look like they'll really take abuse which is good for a pro headphone.
It has indeed had a retune. I directly compared my old T50 with Shure pads' which I like a lot and the treble has been opened up. There is a peak up there which is noticeable on speech consonants and bass seems a little more clearly defined. For some, it actually might sound harsh I think. Brass sounds really bite.
I 'think' it is actually an improvement. Certainly on the old stock version. The treble is more open sounding which was a slight problem with the V2 sound without a filter. Not with the V3. It's quite a bit sharper sounding. Slightly more top than an hd650. The stock V2 is very mids focused by comparison and doesn't seem as extended.
Bass is very well controlled and doesn't creep up at all. It seems like a more focused V2 actually. The bass disappears quite fast which can give the impression that it doesn't have as much bass as the V2. The V2 seems a bit 'fatter' by comparison. You can hear that it's a Fostex but like it's gone through a pencil sharpener!!
Overall, it seems pretty neutral sounding and has more bite than I felt Planars would give. It seems very open sounding and less shut in than the V2. On the edge of harshness with some files perhaps. I saw a review that received a couple of edgy replies about it being a bad review because it said that they sound neutral and didn't say a lot else. Actually, that's how I feel about them at the moment. They are pretty neutral with a bite in the top. Lower bass is not as strong as I'd expect from a planar, but it's tuned really well imo and has renewed my interest in planars. They just seem to push out bass very quickly in comparison to many other headphones. In fact, the treble is on the edge of harshness by comparison to the V2. (Not sure yet whether my ears have adjusted more to the dark NH sound so comparatively, this is feeling edgy)
So the retune seems pretty good to me and this is good in stock form. I'll do some longer listening with decent quality sources just to see what it can do.
It's well worth the asking price in terms of both build and sound Imo, and it sounds like a 'reinvented' headphone.
Same cable connection problem. I totally eliminated it by cleaning the male plug and giving it a good twist back and forth in the socket, followed by another clean of the male plug. No hint of it now.
The O2 and the Ifi Nano seem to work really well with it as well, making it a nice portable option with the short orange lead. This is low fi but extremely good - voice reproduction on podcasts is excellent.
The Kameleon T50 filter wouldn't be right with these, I think. It would need adjusting.
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