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Post by marveltone on Mar 18, 2017 17:27:38 GMT
I, like many of you, like to browse many different forums that pertain to our various interests and hobbies. One thing that I have always noticed, regardless of the hobby, is there are two types of people out there. Those who search high and low and spend lots of money, searching for the perfect product to meet their needs; and those who are willing to buy something a little less "perfect" out of the box for less, and mod it to fit.
In this case, since we are a headphone forum, I am, of course, talking about headphones and those who use them. I am constantly amazed at the outrageous amounts of money some people spend (yes, it's their money and they have a right to spend it) in the search for the perfect headphone, which, of course, doesn't exist. They might have drawers full of cans they no longer listen to, as a result.
Then there are the more hands-on types, who will take a "close, but no cigar" type of headphone and carefully mod it to fit their particular tastes and desires. Many times this is because of personal economics, and sometimes, it's just because they like to tinker.
Neither way is right or wrong, but I love the contrast, and it keeps me entertained and educated. The older I get, the more I'm inclined to tinker to get what I want, as I don't have deep pockets, but I do like personally customized products.
Thoughts? Cantor? Anecdotes?
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Post by marveltone on Mar 18, 2017 18:08:58 GMT
Perhaps this should have been in the Chitter Chatter thread?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 18, 2017 18:55:38 GMT
For me Joe, it's a hobby of contrasts. I'm purely 'interested' in how different headphones are configured to sound, since so far, I haven't really heard any headphone that images anything like speakers. They're either compressed as far as image is concerned or so spaced out, it's unnatural to me.
I've used headphones for round about 50 years now as a 'tool' for just monitoring my playing. So for a long time, from my first JVC headphone, I've just used them to feed back info on recordings that I've been working with in order to spot problems.
I get just as much pleasure from my Portapro as from my TH900. Difference in price is around £1,000!! I use different headphones for different situations as well so I have a 'working' collection and a 'sleeping' collection which I use for comparing with other things that come my way.
I've never really understood how some find headphones totally unlistenable. I've never found that. Even the fake msr7 I could tolerate, although I wasn't keen on it. I find some enthusiasts 'snooty' outlook quite peculiar since our minds adjust pretty quickly in most cases and those that can't adjust get all uppity about a headphone. To me, it's just another sound and if it's so offensive, then you can always turn it down.
There is an amazing variation in headphone sound. (As there is in speakers) There is no real right or wrong in what you prefer, although some will tell you what you ought to be hearing, but to me, those people are often playing power games. The idea that they must be more knowledgeable about something and so dictate to you what you should listen to givessome a sense of power, I think. Some even write stuff on forums that looks as though some professor has written it like a thesis. To me (as someone who has had to write things about music in my education) it reeks of someone who might have missed out on a university education or something ......
People with chips on their shoulders who lecture everyone as compensation!!
To me, a good headphone is one that entertains me and keeps me interested in the content without taking my attention away with some effect that's distracting. For some, it's a flat, measured reponse and for others it's not.
So, I have two collections......
A sleeping set for comparison purposes which 'feeds' my hobby.
A 'working' collection which are used on a daily basis in different situations for different types of music.
I don't really say much about what I use regularly since someone will always tell me there's better. But for me, they serve the purpose for normal day to day situations, regardless of the quality of fidelity. The Portapro is a great example. Not a great headphone really, but does the job excellently - they're rugged, comfortable, and play most stuff quite nicely. They fit in your pocket and because they're cheap, I wear them anywhere. So I prefer them to something like the Beyer DT1350 which is technically way better, but for me, just doesn't serve the purpose that I want to use them in as well as the Portapro. So a £30 headphone is better for me than a £170 where both are supposed to be for the portable market.
Same for other headphones like listening at home, or in the garden. I just use different ones.
One thing that I am very glad about on this forum, is that we don't have that snobbish outlook with regard to what you can and can't 'tolerate' on your heads. To me, that's just nonsense. It's just a sound and so far, I can tolerate most headphones that I've heard in 50 years for different things. Even the crappy IPod buds - serve a purpose. They don't have great bass or treble, but they do voice or speech adequately and can work for listening to plays!!!
I do question the value of headphones and although I love the sound of my TH900, I still feel that the price is way too high for what it is. The market plays up to these snob types and appeal to their supriority in the marketing. There's nothing special inside headphones so I'd love to know how some of the prices asked are worked out. My gut feeling is that they get away with as much as they can and I'm afraid the TH900, as much as I like it, is probably the same. I paid far too much for it really and it was a luxury that normally, I'd never consider.
I still feel that there's a limit for me around £400. Too much higher than that and the benefits are pretty tiny in reality. One I get enormous pleasure from is my Denon D2000. Originally, that retailed at around £300 (although I was given mine). That's a quarter of the TH900. The TH900 isn't four times better and actually, the D2000 is kind of close as well!!!
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sekar
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Post by sekar on Mar 19, 2017 14:08:45 GMT
As for me it's very painful question. It's very entertaining and amusing to tinker the old scheme just trying to discover something in Your perception in the sound and music . That process may improve really your listening skills to teach you to listen more carefully and pay close attention to details  I know some persons who had purchased a lot of expensive headphones and HP Amps in their endless attemptions to find exactly proper or right sound or some persons who tries to change or accommodate their musical tastes to new gear. To tinker or not to tinker ? or better say - I tinker for sentimental reason ... |
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Post by Mr Trev on Mar 19, 2017 15:50:43 GMT
The whole modding thing has always been a bit of a mystery to me. Personally, I'd like to think the guys who engineered the phones know better than me about what they should sound like. That's also why I don't use EQ very often - I just prefer to hear them the way they are meant to sound. Like Ian, I don't find the "unlistenable" concept has much validity. Sure, I've found phones that aren't quite to what I've expected - my 400i included - but my brain always seems to burn-in far faster than the headphones do.
That being said, I do see how modding is just a fun thing to do. I modded my Grados purely for comfort, but that was enough of an enjoyable task that I'm starting to think about things like wood earcups, removable cables. Since it doesn't look like I'll be able to get replacement drivers for my HP150 (and I've been reading bad things bout the drivers you get on AE and the like), I've been pondering an ortho transplant - I have no idea what I'd be doing, but sounds like something fun to try.
I guess its a similar thing to the reason I've liked working on cars and would love to build a ultralight/kit plane
<edit> also forgot to mention that I'm planning on building cables just due to the fact the price of some of them are beyond absurd.
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sekar
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Post by sekar on Mar 19, 2017 16:52:54 GMT
Sometimes the real process is much more important and involving than the final result This waiting of parts being ordered from e-bay sellers. There are a lot of clones of well known HP Amp Chinese sellers offer to you. They are usually cheap so in this case be prepeared to apply some mods - replace caps , volpots and opamps . |
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Post by Mr Trev on Mar 19, 2017 16:57:09 GMT
Sometimes the real process is much more important and involving than the final result This waiting of parts being ordered from e-bay sellers. There are a lot of clones of well known HP Amp Chinese sellers offer to you. They are usually cheap so in this case be prepeared to apply some mods - replace caps , volpots and opamps . I have one of those cheap Chinese amps! Did all the requisite mods. Kinda fun, kinda frustrating - due to the cheap-ass pcb, and the fact I hadn't done any soldering in a dog's age |
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Post by marveltone on Mar 19, 2017 19:38:28 GMT
The whole modding thing has always been a bit of a mystery to me. Personally, I'd like to think the guys who engineered the phones know better than me about what they should sound like. That's also why I don't use EQ very often - I just prefer to hear them the way they are meant to sound. Like Ian, I don't find the "unlistenable" concept has much validity. Sure, I've found phones that aren't quite to what I've expected - my 400i included - but my brain always seems to burn-in far faster than the headphones do. That being said, I do see how modding is just a fun thing to do. I modded my Grados purely for comfort, but that was enough of an enjoyable task that I'm starting to think about things like wood earcups, removable cables. Since it doesn't look like I'll be able to get replacement drivers for my HP150 (and I've been reading bad things bout the drivers you get on AE and the like), I've been pondering an ortho transplant - I have no idea what I'd be doing, but sounds like something fun to try. I guess its a similar thing to the reason I've liked working on cars and would love to build a ultralight/kit plane <edit> also forgot to mention that I'm planning on building cables just due to the fact the price of some of them are beyond absurd. There's a lot of good stuff being engineered and built, to be sure, but as person who has worked in custom manufacturing for over 25 years, I have learned that no two customers are exactly alike. We see colors differently, we like different shapes, we hear sounds differently... Individual preference can often (And typically does!) change one's perception of a product. Sometimes what seems perfect to one set of ears needs "just a little tweak" to another. I think this is where the modding tends to come in the most. Some people will like a certain peak or dip in the sound because of the shape of their ears, or the kind of music they listen to, or hearing loss in certain frequencies. Manufacturers can't possibly adjust for all these variables; although, some do have impressively huge product offerings to meet an impressively large market. No matter how big the budget, or how good the engineers, there has yet to be a perfect stock headphone. In manufacturing, time is money. Typically, that means the product is released when it's "good enough". Chasing total perfection is a poor way to make money. |
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 20, 2017 6:04:39 GMT
There are a few headphones I did not modify and quite a number that had relatively easily removable flaws.
The HD650 and HD800 as well as the DT1350 I did not modify nor my old DT990.
These seem well engineered.
They all do have some issues in tonal balance or resonances here and there which are easily resolved to my personal satisfaction with EQ.
Those I did modify did improve and in general are cheaper mass products.
Usually not well engineered.
Even when modified they still aren't great performers though.
Admittedly the latest Superlux offerings, at least sonically, did come close to or even exceed SQ of more expensive ones.
Random mods is something that can be a hit or miss and think having some reference or measurement equipment around is essential to pull off good modifications.
I do like 'flat' perhaps with a slight bass boost.
I do think headphones with a different tonal color can be useful they aren't to me.
Often I get annoyed when it is tonally off. Easy to remedy in most cases.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 20, 2017 10:36:15 GMT
What I don't like about the more expensive headphones is that even they have their foibles and benefit from a little playing around. Since they tend to have better drivers, they respond better than cheaper ones on the whole but with the cost of some of them, you'd think that a pro engineer would look more closely at them. HD800 comes to mind with its treble and then a Sennheiser response of the HD800s.
Then with eq, the HD800 is better which makes you wonder why they aren't released this way.
It's still very difficult to trial these high end headphones so buying one is an expensive risk.
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jello
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Post by jello on Mar 20, 2017 12:26:13 GMT
Then with eq, the HD800 is better which makes you wonder why they aren't released this way. Probably so they could release a new & improved version, with minimal R&D, when the HD800 was no longer FOTM on Head-Fi  I secretly think that Frans was part of the design team. Insist they add a sharp 6kHz peak = a gazillion sales of Kameleon filters??? |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 20, 2017 12:31:55 GMT
He's hilarious. That clip made me laugh the first time around when someone used it for something else!! It kind of demonstrates the way I feel about some headphones too......
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jello
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Post by jello on Mar 20, 2017 12:35:25 GMT
I honestly think that Pavlov should have done away with the dogs and used headphone owners as test subjects instead. I know I salivate whenever a new headphone gets announced  |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 20, 2017 12:48:44 GMT
I've been looking around for a dt1990 to hear. Not much written about them. So I guess there's a slight feeling of salivation .... woof woof. If only we could do the same with kids ......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 18:37:04 GMT
I think too many people have too much time on their hands, myself included. I bought & modded the Superlux HD662EVO's and they sound very good. They're not in the same league as my HD 650's though, as much as I may have thought so at the time. I did buy them because they were closed-back though & I suspect they're better than anything else I could have bought in that category and certainly at that price. Horses for courses.
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I know some persons who had purchased a lot of expensive headphones and HP Amps in their endless attemptions to find exactly proper or right sound or some persons who tries to change or accommodate their musical tastes to new gear.
