solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 9, 2017 4:48:44 GMT
How was the treble compared to the HD650? The problem is I heard it only relatively briefly with unfamilar music. I figured I would get to measure, and hear it, more extensively in a month or so. Not too interested in it as to me it wasn't the best sounding headphone around. If I would have to guess I would say slightly subdued, a bit like the older padded HD650 perhaps. But again ... take my impressions with a grain of salt due to the time and circumstances. In any case I liked Dan's closed Aeon more but that one is almost twice as expensive. The Aeon I heard had a lot more upper treble. Didn't listen to the HD800(S) there to compare directly. Was talking more to the rep there. I had spoken with him a year before as well and he seemed to recognize me. Usually I go 'undercover' at those kind of exhibitions and don't let anyone know who I am and what I do/did. Only one guy there (Rick from Ears Unlimited) knew who I am and like to keep it that way.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 9, 2017 4:55:55 GMT
> Some random That's not very friendly, is it? JK. I sadly missed the HD660 completely, it wasn't there from the start. When I was there, there was only the HE-1, HD800 and HD800S Now that we know who you are you aren't rando any more. They said it arrived per courier that morning so quite likely it wasn't there after the opening. I was there from 13:30 to 14:00, didn't have much time and thought I would visit Ears Unlimited and measure the new arrivals there next month or so. It was on the far right of the table... kind of invisible. Looked like a HD650 so most may not have seen it at all. That HE-1 and the HD800(s) got all of the attention. The HE-1 well deserves this.
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Post by ronzo56 on Oct 9, 2017 5:15:53 GMT
Thanks Frans. Looks like you will get more time with this surprise from Sennheiser. Different way to introduce it that's for certain. Perhaps they are still doing some fine tuning. If the rep is correct we will see it soon. Causing quite a bit of speculation as to the driver. Is it a HD700 or something new etc. I was wondering if it had the Sennheiser logo towards the back of the outside grill. Someone posted a picture on Reddit but the model number could not be seen. Supposedly it's the HD660S. Although some are doubting its existence. Hoping this is not going to be a limited release. I think that would be a big mistake on Sennheiser's part.
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Post by kilspeed111 on Oct 9, 2017 13:04:29 GMT
> Some random That's not very friendly, is it? JK. I sadly missed the HD660 completely, it wasn't there from the start. When I was there, there was only the HE-1, HD800 and HD800S Now that we know who you are you aren't rando any more. They said it arrived per courier that morning so quite likely it wasn't there after the opening. I was there from 13:30 to 14:00, didn't have much time and thought I would visit Ears Unlimited and measure the new arrivals there next month or so. It was on the far right of the table... kind of invisible. Looked like a HD650 so most may not have seen it at all. That HE-1 and the HD800(s) got all of the attention. The HE-1 well deserves this. At the booth, I only had a listen to the HE-1. I personally own the HD800, and have heard the HD800S a few times before so it didn't really catch my eye. It seems that we're quite the opposite regarding the HE-1. I personally find this headphone to be grossly overrated, and overpriced. To my ears, it lacked soundstage, the instrument seperation was 'meh' and it had too much low-end. I'd take a HD800 or Stax SR009+Liquid lightning over it any day. Especially the low-end was very surprising to me, as they're electrostatic headphones. They're known for their 'sterile' sound, with a lot of them actually lacking low end. All of this might be because of the very bad listening condition, though. I left my details to the very friendly Sennheiser rep, and asked him if he could maybe contact me if there was another listening opportunity in my area. What did you thing about the Final D8000 prototype? Did you get the chance to give it a listen?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 9, 2017 13:41:15 GMT
I am not a big Final fan. Saw a bunch of people with a very large diameter Final but did not listen to them. Time constraints. Reckon the big-un was the ortho prototype. I should have stopped by there though. Around Euro 2.000,- isn't really cheap though.
The light-weight concrete Meze was fun to see and feel. A non-functional proto though.
Tastes do differ. That's why so many headphones exist and are sold.
The SR009 is nice sounding for sure, so is the 007 and L700 IMO. Don't like to be tied to a specific listening location though so stats are not for me. Not 'portable' enough.
Overpriced ... the HE1 ... for sure. I would say very heavily overpriced. But to me they are, or at least are amongst, the best sounding headphones around. Funny how the exact same headphone is considered too bassy and lacking in sepration while to someone else the bass was just right (thus slightly boosted) and separation and imaging is as close to ideal/real as possible.
What did you think of the Final ? And what about mr. Speakers efforts ? The nighthawk thingies ? The SRL500 ? I believe thought it was or the L700 ?
When you live near Delft you really should visit Ears Unlimited.
The current location was a bit better than the previous (first) headphone heaven in Utrecht.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 11, 2017 6:34:35 GMT
Sometimes with deep bass on a headphone, you can get recordings that produce no deep bass at all and so even on the Kameleon’d HD650, they can sound quite thin. Perhaps sometimes, mid and deep bass can get confused as well.
I understand why some might not like deep bass though, because it can almost rattle your jaws!!
It’ll be interesting to find out how the bass is done on the new model actually. I have seen claims that the drivers are hd700 but we won’t know until we see one.
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Post by darkarn on Oct 12, 2017 15:20:26 GMT
Am about get myself a pair of HD600 (nice promo here and having additional vouchers to use helps a lot!) when I heard about this news
Now I wonder if I should stick with the HD600 and just make/buy balanced cables for it at the right time, or just hold out for this...
Something tells me that if I already prefer HD600 over HD650 I should just get the HD600 though!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 12, 2017 17:06:09 GMT
Am about get myself a pair of HD600 (nice promo here and having additional vouchers to use helps a lot!) when I heard about this news Now I wonder if I should stick with the HD600 and just make/buy balanced cables for it at the right time, or just hold out for this... Something tells me that if I already prefer HD600 over HD650 I should just get the HD600 though! Maybe the HD660S is flatter, closer to the HD600 but with more bass extension. Only time will tell. Personally I would wait a few weeks till the first ones are spotted in the wild and reliable measurements become available. The streetprice of the HD600 will be half that of the newer models. The HD600 is a good sounding headphone. It lacks body though.
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Post by darkarn on Oct 12, 2017 19:27:38 GMT
Am about get myself a pair of HD600 (nice promo here and having additional vouchers to use helps a lot!) when I heard about this news Now I wonder if I should stick with the HD600 and just make/buy balanced cables for it at the right time, or just hold out for this... Something tells me that if I already prefer HD600 over HD650 I should just get the HD600 though! Maybe the HD660S is flatter, closer to the HD600 but with more bass extension. Only time will tell. Personally I would wait a few weeks till the first ones are spotted in the wild and reliable measurements become available. The streetprice of the HD600 will be half that of the newer models. The HD600 is a good sounding headphone. It lacks body though. Based on the HD600 chart in diyah, sounds like the HD660S will be close to a Kameleon'ed HD600? (Yes, I am considering a Kameleon if I am getting the HD600) Not sure what you meant by lacking body by the way
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fanda
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Post by fanda on Oct 12, 2017 20:03:13 GMT
HD600 is well known and has been measured extensively. HD660S is as yet unknown except for brief impressions and it wouldn't be prudent to make big assumptions about it just yet.
IMO, if you do not want to wait for a few weeks, it would be safer to go for hd600+Kameleon/EQ.
If you do wait, then either of the following can happen: 1. HD660S will live upto expectations (and be a 'flatter' 600/650). This would also likely cause street prices of HD600/650 to drop further. You can re-evaluate your options then. 2. HD660S will disappoint (as in it may have different flaws not present with 6x0). In this case, you can get the HD600 anyway (price will basically remain the same).
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 12, 2017 21:07:49 GMT
Maybe the HD660S is flatter, closer to the HD600 but with more bass extension. Only time will tell. Personally I would wait a few weeks till the first ones are spotted in the wild and reliable measurements become available. The streetprice of the HD600 will be half that of the newer models. The HD600 is a good sounding headphone. It lacks body though. Based on the HD600 chart in diyah, sounds like the HD660S will be close to a Kameleon'ed HD600? (Yes, I am considering a Kameleon if I am getting the HD600) Not sure what you meant by lacking body by the way By lacking 'body' I mean the lower bass, the thump that impresses with movies. This forms the 'foundation' of good sound. Sure, most people don't need it and won't miss it. What you don't know, you won't miss. The weird part is that unless you heard it, it is hard to understand/describe. People often comment that bass extension ends up in muddy, fatty, undefined bass. This, however, is only the case when 'correction' is not done right. Dialing up a tone control or not using the correct sliders in a graphic few-band EQ or basing it on unacurate measurements will boost bass and most likely also upper bass. Yes, it enhances the subbass as well of course but the boosted bass will make it sound 'fat' and 'blurry' and anything but 'tight'. Those that say... bass extension = muddy sound have not heard a correct bass extension. The trick is to only lift what needs lifting and ensure no bass hump is there. On top of that the driver/headphone needs to be able to produce it and seal has to be perfect ... otherwise .. muddy sound. When this is the case, with good recordings (not average pop music) there is a sort of 'realness' added. No 'thumbs' in the chest or the ears... just sort of a 'foundation' under the music. All I can say is it makes sense when you hear it. When it is not there or attenuated that effect is simply not present BUT you won't miss it. People loving K500 or some Grado's (as well as PortaPro) won't think they miss anything in the music. It is only after you heard it, it becomes clear.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 13, 2017 6:39:38 GMT
At the other end of the scale, many think that treble extension means that a headphone sounds thin and aggressive which is also not the case. Maybe that’s because we’re used to hearing peaks up there with so many headphones.
Equally, bass is thought to be the mid bass. Some think of say a Grado sr60 having a great bass. In fact, it rolls away quite quickly but the headphone sounds warm in the bass because of the bloom in the mid bass.
I find the HD650 lacking in the bass without a Kameleon. The most common reply when I say that is that the Senn is warm and bassy, when actually, the lower bass falls away quite fast after a mid bass hump. Once the hump is away and bass becomes more extended, you don’t get more bass. You get more of a lifelike presence from the bottom end; only when it’s there, with no bloom planted over everything else.
I enjoy the Sony mdr 1a, and that’s a good example of a headphone planting that ‘bloom’ onto everything it plays. Makes you think that it has a big bass, but really, the sound is being muddied up by that bloom.
That’s very often why some think that they don’t like bass.
In the bad old days, I remember companies producing box speakers with little low bass and magazines really recommending them. That’s because with sub bass missing, you kind of aren’t aware it’s missing if the speaker does the rest well. The thinking being that missing (bad) bass quality is better than having it there.
I guess the thinking is also coming from a speaker point of view, where a sub bass presence might set off all kinds of room resonances above and so ‘blur’ the sound where in headphones, the room is tiny so it’s not going to do the same thing once the mid bass bloom is reduced.
Good bass is profound and on occasions, extremely deep. Quite a lot of recordings actually don’t have proper deep bass on them so the headphone doesn’t produce any. With no mid bass ‘bloom’ planted onto those recordings, they can actually sound way less bassy on a headphone with a strong sub bass response!!
For me, the big question with the hd660S is whether Sennheiser left the mid bass bloom there......
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 13, 2017 10:55:43 GMT
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Post by darkarn on Oct 13, 2017 11:24:36 GMT
HD600 is well known and has been measured extensively. HD660S is as yet unknown except for brief impressions and it wouldn't be prudent to make big assumptions about it just yet. IMO, if you do not want to wait for a few weeks, it would be safer to go for hd600+Kameleon/EQ. If you do wait, then either of the following can happen: 1. HD660S will live upto expectations (and be a 'flatter' 600/650). This would also likely cause street prices of HD600/650 to drop further. You can re-evaluate your options then. 2. HD660S will disappoint (as in it may have different flaws not present with 6x0). In this case, you can get the HD600 anyway (price will basically remain the same). Good point, I should be more careful with my assumptions. Basically I need to decide to go with a tried and tested model that is on sale for a limited time vs wait for the newer model that can either be better or worse...
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Post by marveltone on Oct 13, 2017 13:00:51 GMT
This discussion about subbass is very relevant. My own experiences have shown that adding a properly tuned subwoofer to any decent speaker system can make the whole system really shine. Even with my limited experience in decent headphones, I can really tell the difference in the fullness of the sound between my SR80, which is almost completely devoid of any semblance of subbass, and my K7XX, which has considerably more. If Sennheiser adds more onto the bottom end, they could have a real winner.
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