Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 20, 2019 18:30:00 GMT
I didn't know it came with 2 different pads when I measured it. My plots were made with the B pads (fitted stock) as were Rtings measurements. If I'd known I would have measured both pads. Too bad Rtings didn't measure both pads, would heave been nice to see the difference. They mentioned the amount of bass is lower in the A pads (and thus the treble stands out even more). Good to have choices indeed. Excellent headphones but the treble peak bothered me the short time I listened to it. For monitoring it may be welcome, maybe even for mastering as one dials back that lifted part of the FR a bit. This is the area where most headphones have peaks anyway. Yes Frans, it comes with two sets of pads. The fitted ones are normally the ‘balanced’ pads which are the ones I use most of the time. They add a boost in the bass of 3dB or so which suits me and also helps to counter balance the treble peak up there at 8kHz or so. The analytical pads are softer and have a different number of holes in them for leakage. (Exactly the same arrangement as the DT770 and dt990 pads with the holes in the back for that leakage) They basically loose a bit of the bass, giving the impression of a clearer treble. Imaging on the A pads is amazingly good which is possibly why they’re aimed at people using them for monitoring. Working on video audio is incredibly easy on the ears with them and the accuracy of its ‘pinpointing’ sources is excellent. The reason I prefer the ‘b’ pads though is they just have lots of lower ‘guts’ in the sound and I’m just happier with its sound. What surprises me is that they have a very wide ‘focus’ as far as levels go. Pretty good low down and also loud. A lot of headphones I’ve had snap in at certain points and some can be really touchy where they snap in, but the Beyer is more like a speaker with a diffuse field in that respect. Also, with orchestral sound, the strings sound really well produced generally, to me in spite of thar treble spike. You can hear the bows being dragged over the strings very clearly and their sound integrates well with the rest of the orchestra. Many headphones that I’ve heard over the years just don’t do strings well. They’re either syrupy and muffled, or strident and overdone. I think the Beyer does them really well. They have become my favourite headphone over time. There are times when I crave more top clarity from the Senn HD650 and less top grit from the Fostex th900 headphones I bought 4 or 5 years ago. Also with the Fostex, I do now feel that the cup enclosure causes a slight ‘cuppiness’ in its sound with some material. Almost like a cavity resonance that needs controlling. In comparison to the dt1990, they sound a bit constricted and constrained. I finally heard an hd800s. Didn’t really care for it if I’m honest. It sounded a bit thin to me so I upgraded my Beyer dt990 to these. Mind you, the imaging on the Senns was way better. The Beyers are more narrow and closed in by comparison. Two cables as well. Stunning case. Actually, I use my AKG cables because they’re lighter and not as long. The Beyer curly is gigantic when stretched out. Same fit as the AKG’s. I also liked the dt1770. Not as brash as the dt770 with again, a lot of weigh but I felt that if I was going to pay Senn 800 prices, I might as well get a semi open and a closed for the same or less money. The drivers on the dt1990 are amazingly fast. Great transient response. Cymbals are pretty amazing where you hear the body and ‘gong’ type sound but you also very easily hear the hits from the wooden sticks. I went out last week doing a video with binaural sound and used the dt1990 to monitor. Just stunning. Could place everything with my eyes shut. Edgy recordings can get close to sibilance and a bit gritty with them, but for me, it just helps with a bit of clarity at the grand old age of 65! The Beyers have come down in price and quite honestly, I don’t know of much else that can match them at £399. Moved my £300 barrier up by £100 now because of them. I think Beyer did a great job on their sound and the build is just stunning.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 25, 2019 9:27:41 GMT
I think I changed my mind about the pads today! After a break and using the ‘B’ pads for some time, I went back to the A’s just to compare. Slightly lowered bass quantity but just that in itself seems to make the sound a little more lucid and for some reason, even imaging seems better. Less muddy I guess.
I think I’ll stay with the ‘A’ pads for a while now.
They are buggers to get on. You fit the plastic back into a groove and twist. The more that’s in, the tighter it gets as you twist and then parts can flip out if you twist off axis. Once they’re on though, they definitely will stay there!!
The ‘A’ pads are also softer, with me ory foam. They have less ‘leakage’ holes on the back than the ‘B’ pads.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 4, 2019 15:57:43 GMT
I’ve read some reviews where the writer says something along the lines of ‘these are similar to the DT990’.
I directly went from one to the other today to see if this is true and I think this is wrong actually. The DT990 doesn’t have the same ‘authority’ and weight in its sound. It kind of sounds thinner by comparison and less substantial. The mids of the DT1990 are better and it is slightly more sensitive than the DT990.
I have been doing some video soundtrack mixing recently with them and the detail is amazingly good. Imaging is also more accurate as well I think. It seems to really pinpoint where things are with more clues with regards to ambience and front to back depth; something I have always found difficult with headphones. These seem to give a very clear idea of depth in the front to back spread.
Recordings made via mixing desks where performers weren’t together sometimes show very plainly in sound balancing and ambience, where imo, bad mixing decisions have been made. The truth is more likely that the mixing guys did the mixing for speakers and sometimes on headphones, their decisions can be slightly exaggerated and on the DT1990, they become really obvious. Other things like one performer is in a different room to another also can show.
In fact, on some recordings, I kind of feel as though the mixing is quite a way off sometimes where the backing is solidly there and the soloist has been placed too far forward in the mix so that in headphones, they sound a bit too separate from the band! This doesn’t show as much on speakers.
So really, I feel that the DT1990 is a great headphone in that respect. More balanced than the DT990 and certainly more image etching. The treble peak doesn’t seem quite as harsh as the DT1990 either, which is weird when you look at the FR graphs around for it.
I tried the DT990 balanced pads on the DT990, but to be honest, it’s not worth the trouble. The DT990 doesn’t get close to the DT1990 sound and the B pads do it no favours at all. I was hoping that the B pads might warm up the mids on the DT990 so that they resembled the DT1990 mids, which are excellent. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work!
You know, I might replace my DT770 with the dt1770 now tbh. I don’t think it’s quite as good as the DT1990, but a lot of people rave about them being an improvement and now I’ve compared with the DT990, I think I know what improvements will probably be there.......
Beyer did a fantastic job with these. I must say, they are really impressive. The speed of attack, excellent image and ambient retrieval along with a warm, weighty sound make it a killer headphone for me. So my old limit with regards to pricing of headphones for excellent sound with probably pretty small changes if you go higher has now altered, I think, from £300 to £400!
The old Denon got me to focus around £300 but this has raised the bar for me!!
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Post by Aristrotle on Apr 4, 2019 18:31:21 GMT
Another sweet point is they don't leak that much as open back headphones usually do. In fact I can hardly hear sound leakage even at louder level when I take mine off and put it within 1 meter away on the desk. And I'll need my ear to reach the grills when I want to hear something shortly without putting it on. Generally beyer's 7 series headphones are closed, 8 series are semi-open and 9 series are fully open. Although dt1990 are indicated as open, I suspect it's more likely to be semi-open. To my guess, Amiron are more open.
I wasn't expecting dt1990 to have good depth reproduction since they have normal driver positioning setting. Though the sounds are pretty much in the head, they've got front and back, while with k701/2 everything is in front of my head but in the same layer. I would like these features to be merged yet I can't give up any of them.
Some people claimed that dt1990 are attenuated t1 in many aspects. It makes me wonder how imaging is improved if any in t1 with angled drivers.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 4, 2019 21:33:08 GMT
I get that single layer effect with the K712. Very wide, but on one plane.
The DT1990 is indeed, semi open, which probably accounts for its amazing bass; especially for a dynamic. I love the bass on them. I’ve decided to stay with the A pads now. I think I prefer them to the B, just slightly.
Every time I listen on these; especially to acoustic music or orchestral, the image placing is just amazing. Although I am well aware of instrumental placing being a retired musician, I even think I sometimes hear the flutes slightly to one side of the oboes and they sit next to each other.
Another thing I’ve noticed is just how plainly they portray string bow strokes. I was listening toTchaikovsky’s 4th this week, and in the section where the strings play the main theme really loudly, it’s really obvious that they don’t play single notes for the long notes, but semi-quavers.... a bit like a tremelo. Many headphones don’t reproduce that effect so clearly. My only guess us that the drivers are very fast and stop very quickly, so minute detail like that becomes plainer.
I find the magical for judging vocal tone on video as well. Where you have microphones that colour sounds in all kinds of ways, the DT1990 really helps to even out the various timbres that you get from a multitude of mics in the same video.
Really impressive headphone and contrary to some reviews, a large upgrade from the DT990. (I have them as well!)
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 11, 2019 16:39:54 GMT
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shiro
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Post by shiro on Aug 13, 2019 7:32:48 GMT
Nice review! Do the pads from Beyer have memory foam? Also, what's your impression of sound stage?
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Post by Aristrotle on Aug 17, 2019 12:31:29 GMT
6 days after solderdude's updated mod advice was posted, the dekoni elite velour for dt on amazon has been sold out!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 18, 2019 6:14:15 GMT
Nice review! Do the pads from Beyer have memory foam? Also, what's your impression of sound stage? no memory foam... the same stuff they always used. Headstage is not as wide as HD800 but in 'pinpoint' accuracy (being able to tell exactly where an instrument is) it is closer to a HD800 as say a HD650.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 18, 2019 6:19:56 GMT
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Post by Aristrotle on Aug 21, 2019 4:23:43 GMT
I don't quite understand... Did you mean the Dekoni pads can fit on all three models but the original pads can't mutually switch?
They can be ordered now, but won't start shipping until 10 days later. It seems Dekoni is still stocking up. Too bad I hesitated deciding whether to buy one
What interests me is the fact that the beyer peak along with less pronounced 4.5kHz beyer dip, which also presents in DT770, DT1770 and Amiron, can be solved at once with alternative pads. I always thought it was a driver or enclosure thing, like direct wave and reflected wave canceling each other. Now I'm curious again.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 26, 2019 20:46:00 GMT
I don't quite understand... Did you mean the Dekoni pads can fit on all three models but the original pads can't mutually switch? Dekoni states the pads are suited for DT770, DT880 and DT990 but they are only suited for DT880 and DT990 just like the Beyerpads, these also only work on DT880 and DT990. You need different pads for DT770. What interests me is the fact that the beyer peak along with less pronounced 4.5kHz beyer dip, which also presents in DT770, DT1770 and Amiron, can be solved at once with alternative pads. I always thought it was a driver or enclosure thing, like direct wave and reflected wave canceling each other. Now I'm curious again. I still have to use the filter, it seems like the pads mask the peak somehow as I can still hear it. Otherwise the pads make it just the way I want it ... between A and B pads and with better comfort. I use the filter anyway for the DT1770 with DT770 pads.
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Post by Aristrotle on Aug 29, 2019 8:40:27 GMT
So the shipment was made way faster than planned and I received them earlier today. There are some interesting findings after a brief trial.
The leather trims of Dekoni pads are broader and MUCH more softer than original pads, so you strip them over the edges rather than slide them into the slots as you do to the original pads. Foam stuffing in the pads would make some fizzy noise when you put the headphone on, a little noise when you move your jaw. Comfort is great, better than original pads. (also I find A pads a bit stiffer than B pads, do you feel the same?
Sound-wise, I'd like to talk about the bass first. Despite the measurements suggest the bass quantity of Dekoni pads is in between A and B pads, I found them have the most perceived bass, probably because the treble was attenuated more so the bass relatively stands out (or the manufacturing process has changed). The quality is still good though, deep, thumpy, warm but remained fast.
I don't know how to evaluate mids so I'm gonna skip this section.
Then, the treble. The first thing I noticed after pads switch was the treble sounding more metallic, until I switched back to B pads to find out it wasn't true, actually the original pads sound a lot more metallic. Because the lower 8kHz peak is attenuated, the higher frequency treble peak has became the dominating peak. That makes the sound a different kind of metallic, and less bright.
Vocal sounds more realistic and warmer on Dekoni pads, I liked them for chamber musics and slow-tempo songs, but preferred B pads for rocks, symphonies, metals, electronics.
Imaging and soundstage wise I haven't noticed any difference.
If someone here is also interested in Dekoni pads for DT1990, I hope these could help (afterall it's odd to know myself kind of like beyer peak
EDIT:When compared side by side (B pad on left side and Dekoni pad on right side for instance), it's pretty easy to tell that B pad has more bass (and more treble, the whole image is leaning to B pad at this point). But when listened alone, I would say the Dekoni pads have the biggest bass, sometimes even on the boomy side, very strange.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 30, 2019 18:29:12 GMT
The question is how consistent the Dekoni pads are and if they changed it over time or not.
The 'metalic sound' can be solved with the filter.
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Post by tonyfly on Nov 16, 2020 9:33:22 GMT
It seems Dekoni's own DT 1990 measurements are different from solderdude's. Looking at their FR curves I can't find the same reduction of the treble using the Elite Velour, or am I missing something?
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