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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2013 19:16:11 GMT
Well they aren't. I heard the same song on both setups. On hd 800 I could hear stuff differently, which sounds the same on all setups from hd 439 to hd 598 to hd 650 to lcd2. Only the hd 800 brought out the level of detail which remains equally compressed and absent alike from hd 439 to lcd2. I am not saying lcd2 isn't better than hd 439, but there was stuff which didn't become present except with hd 800 and was absent in all other setups. And the lcd2 was with a beta22 and high end dac. Hd 800 is a clear step up from lcd2. You won't feel the same for just any song though. It is a particular song which is very difficult to play and the hd 800 clearly shows its detailing to nuances as a clear step up from any other headphone out there. The only other good ones I have heard are lcd2 and hd 650 are they were very close to each other as compared to the difference from a hd 800. In absolute terms, lcd2 was a big upgrade from hd 650. But when you go to a hd 800 from lcd2 that is a much bigger upgrade than going from a hd 650 to a lcd2, not even in the same league, not even in adjacent leagues. The lcd2 has a more wet, thick and realistic sound, but hd 800 is so much more detailed that I would call it worth it for 10 times the price of the lcd2. Ipad 3 - lehmann bcl - hd 800 Ipad 3 - lehmann bcl - hd 598 Ad labs dac - beta22 ch - lcd2 Ad labs dac - beta22 ch - hd 650 Even with the above setup, in terms of detailing all the above were relatively close with hd 800 being a clear step up. i have not tried the hd800 so will not comment on a comparison with lcd2, but then again chalk and cheese do not compare well either. you missed 3 important words again Techboy......."IN MY OPINION". as a foot note i would not directly compare the hd650 to hd800 either , again chalk and cheese(from what i have read). i have heard the BD-T1, however , and i would guess this is more comparable to hd800. all in my opinion of course
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2013 19:45:33 GMT
and of course if you throw a "correction filter" for each HP into the mix ,the goalposts move once again. this is the trouble now, for me, because if i audition another headphone i would be thinking..... what would this sound like with a filter?
to get back on track with the original theme of the thread, i am considering one of the low imp hd-500 series for un-amped portable and late night tv use. as i may find now that i am used to open back rather than closed.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 26, 2013 19:54:52 GMT
The HD800 has 10dB MORE highs compared to HD650 and LCD2. It's that DOUBLE amount of treble/details that you like/prefer. When you double the amount of treble to the same amount of the HD800 you would understand what I am getting at. I am NOT saying the HD800 is a bad headphone nor is the LCD-2 ... it's HOW you use them. Drivers like the ones of the HD439 are not capable of reaching the same quality even when EQ'ed. When you EQ an HD650 to be similar to an HD800 (FR wise) you won't believe you are listening to an HD650 any more and details will be on par with HD800.
Those that prefer speaker-alike sound are more likely to find the LCD-2 superior. Those that like exaggerated treble (or need it) are likely to prefer the HD800.
To you an HD800 may be worth 10x the price of an LCD-2 to me it isn't as with a little help (EQ) the LCD2 will sound better than the HD800. For this you HAVE to compare them side by side (so properly EQ'ed LCD-2 next to an EQ'ed HD800) You will then notice the superiority of an ortho.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2013 20:14:38 GMT
its a pity Techboy could not try his 650 with one of your filters Frans. if i were him , i would make it happen. surely this would still be much more cost effective over him buying the 800, which reading between the lines, i think he would really like.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 26, 2013 20:19:24 GMT
You can even EQ it to become quite similar to an HD800.
It is easy to 'pre-audition' by using EQ from a PC player with settings to get a feel of what it could sound like with a filter.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Nov 2, 2013 15:34:02 GMT
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Post by chinook9 on Jan 6, 2014 4:19:08 GMT
Happened to run into this thread again, just when I had seen a good price on the 558s ($121 including shipping) and so I sprung for them. I've never owned any open backed Sennheisers so I thought it was time. I'll be back to review the details on the mod in a couple of days.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 6, 2014 6:02:26 GMT
Good headphone. Some prefer it to the HD598.
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Post by chinook9 on Jan 6, 2014 14:33:27 GMT
I read the initial post about removing the tape inside the cups. Are any there any other significant mods for the 558?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 6, 2014 16:29:31 GMT
Apparently, it sounds more like the HD598 but I actually prefer it with the tape in. It's slightly warmer which I do prefer. I think that the tape controls resonances as well tbh. I often go between the two and stay with the 558, tape and all.
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Post by chinook9 on Jan 7, 2014 0:39:24 GMT
I believe I prefer a slightly bright headphone but I'm not sure. I will listen for a while with the tape in.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 7, 2014 20:34:23 GMT
The difference between a 558 and 598 isn't that great, chinook. The 598 is a little more refined sounding in the treble, but if I'm honest, there are times when I just start missing 'warmth' in the sound. The 558 just has a fraction more warmth but isn't quite as refined I guess. I have both and can directly compare. I did read somewhere that the tape in the 558 stops some kind of resonance as well. Not all are convinced by the tape removal mod so if you do take it out, it's as well to keep a note of where it came from in case you want it back. I'm also not sure that it will stick again if you remove it. Because of it cool sound, I tend to use the 598 less and less. I also find it a little harsh sometimes whereas the 558 has just that fraction more warmth to make it more acceptable on those occasions. Going from the 598 to the 600 or 650 really accentuates the differences in the treble presentation. You can compare the small differences here: en.goldenears.net/12270en.goldenears.net/8494They are very similar in FR. If you line up the 'subjective' boxes at the bottom, you can flick between them and you'll see the 'perceived' differences highlighted which is what I get tbh.
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Post by chinook9 on Jan 8, 2014 19:07:28 GMT
rabbit, thank you for the information and the links. I will receive the 558s today. Looking forward to hearing them.
I will read the GoldenEars articles this evening also. I really like reading this type of article that gives what I consider a pretty good comparison. No double-blind study, but about as good as we're likely to get in audio.
Thanks again.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 16, 2014 17:50:09 GMT
I meant to ask Chinook, how do you find the 558's? I still go back to the stock 558 from the 598 because of the slight increase in warmth. As far as 'detail' goes, I don't think I'm missing that much in cmpaerison to the 598.
I'm using it with a different lead which is a bit more substantial, but shorter, so that it works from Ipods and Ipads.
That touch of warmth is just enough for me to veer moreso towards the 558 and not the 598 which still seems 'coo;' sounding to me, which is quite strange for a Sennhesier headphone really.
The HD600 brings the warmth back again though. To me, the 598 is an odd one out in the family.
The one thing I'd like with them both is more deep bass though.
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Post by chinook9 on Mar 18, 2014 1:42:32 GMT
Rabbit:
I can't give you a detailed answer on the 558s. I liked the 558s a lot and so I went ahead and got a pair of HD650 followed by the DT990. After I got the 990, I packaged the 558s for resale and I haven't listened to them since. I remember I thought they were a good value for the money.
Due to liking the DT990 so much I got a pair of T90 which is a clear step up. I listened to the T90 primarily for a couple of weeks and they seemed to be everything I could wish for in a headphone but after listening to the HD650 and the modified Fostex T50RP again I know there is something the T90 appear to be lacking. Its hard to explain what it is, but both of the latter headphones seem to have more of a fluid sound that has an appeal. Both the HD650 and the modified Fostex sound to me like superb headphones that place a slight veil between my ears and the music. If I can figure out how to lift the veil I will be a happy boy. I may try tuning the Fostex a little but I doubt that it will do much good.
A small part of that veil may be what you refer to as warmth.
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