solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 1, 2014 9:24:36 GMT
My FiiO impressions are here: diyah.boards.net/thread/307/fiio-x3I use it often and can be used as a DAC and or DAC with built-in (low output R) amplifier. On the line out there is no volume/tone control but via the headphone out there is. It has some quirks but not deal breaking for me. Using a potmeter inline as a volume control will (with some headphones) lead to a change in sonic signature. When using an L-pad this is not the case but reckon these are only available in 10 Ohm or so. Also to use a series resistance the amplifier before it will need to have a high output voltage in order to reach some SPL. The Clip won't be able to do that but an X3 can go a bit further. It has +/- 5V rails so about the same as a 9V C'Moy. In case of a modded K550 the effect the output R has on the sonic signature will be VERY different to that on other headphones because of the used filter circuit.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 1, 2014 15:46:30 GMT
Further listening with the K550 shows just how good it is after being modded.
Just for the sake of purity, I went back to close to zero output impedance to listen more critically and found just how neutral this headphone really is. Also how revealing.
DAB radio is bloody awful. It just points out every flaw in the digital compression, which you can hear in the form of distortion plus an 'edgy' kind of bass and sibilance. This is not a headphone to be used this way. It's horrible. To kind of mask it, I found switching to 100 ohms output impedance helped with the focus seeming to be lower down in the frequency spectrum so less sibilance is 'perceived'. (It's still there!!)
I sat and listened to a sample of some jazz from Stephan Braun's trio which is a wonderful album. The textures that the K550 reveal are really terrific. No sibilance. Very deep bass but bass with real texture. You can hear the scraping of the cello string clearly and the deep sounds of bass drum are there with real depth. No boom whatsoever - more like a sub woofer but not turned up to a high level!!
So bass that I thought was missing at first is definitely there. Even at close to zero ohms output impedance, I found I could turn it up without that searing treble, so bass gained a bit more presence actually. Once again, this is a headphone that snaps into focus at certain volumes.
Clarity with rock music is stunning on a good recording. On a poor recording it's nasty again.
So the K550 is very revealing in fact and really shows up the quality of the source in glorious technicolour!!
The mods that Frans has done has made this into a much better headphone. In particular, the treble clarity is still there but it doesn't go through your head like a needle. That's not to say the treble has been dulled. It's certainly not 'dull', but something within the treble has been changed so that it's more natural and less synthetic sounding.
Bass remains pretty much as it was although it can be raised quite a lot by changing the output impedance. Now however, I'm not so sure about raising it. Yes, it raises the bass impact, but on a good recording, you don't need it in all honesty. Having said that, the bass never becomes too dominant. I think it's just a preference thing.
The odd thing about the K550 is just how open it sounds for a closed headphone. That remains. It's really open and there aren't any boxed in sounds or cuppiness feelings that you can get from closed headphones. It's remarkably open actually so inner detail is very apparent. (Just like a good open headphone)
I listened to the Dvorak Wind Serenade in D minor. One problem with just woodwind sounds is that on recordings, they can often verge on ear bleeding in the treble when played loud. For me, it verged on edginess, but you know, I think that's the recording. Mic'ed very close. I can hear the keys so it must be very close.
Rocky stuff has a real clarity and that bass becomes way more apparent. You notice just how deep it goes and with some impact too.
So, for me it has been massively improved. This is a headphone to reckon with. I've not really heard a closed one that sounds so open as this one. I presumed that this was because of the searing treble. It's still open sounding and it has the potential to sound toppy. One thing I have found is that if you listen louder than perhaps what the mic heard, then you will get an aggressiveness in the treble perhaps. It will 'shout' at you. Edge it down and it's fine. I have found this sometimes with some good speakers. Kind of overstep what the mic heard and it becomes aggressive?
Get it right on the modded K550 and it's stunning, as long as the source is OK. It's ruthless at pointing out problems!!
At the price these now sell for, it's really excellent value with the mods done. The mod really does improve them. The original headphone sound remains but there are 'inside' adjustments in the treble that get it much more under control without changing its extension. Bass is fruity if it's actually there!!
In fact, a great headphone lurks there!!!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 4, 2014 20:00:24 GMT
Dave's K550 came in... It was fitted with a silver cable and de-makeup pads before the drivers. measurements of this K550 ( without the de-makeup pads but with silver cable): Quite some imbalance with a substantial difference between L and R regarding the peak ! That needs to be taken into account when modified most likely and may be a challenge. I also was interested in measuring the K550 from 0 Ohm and 120 Ohm. The plot below is of the right channel without pads and level corrected as on 120 Ohm it plays 13.3dB softer. As can be seen the K550 does not react to different impedances (except 1dB around 100Hz) which means the driver has a very linear impedance. Another interesting test (which was done last as it needed to be opened) is looking for differences between the short silver cable and a piece of copper wires that were soldered in parallel (R channel only) onto the driver. As the wires are in parallel the headphone can remain on the measurement rig and only the plug with the silver wire or the copper wire was plugged into the amp. The traces are overlapping so you can only see the blue trace and if one looks closer can still see the orange 'glow' behind the blue trace. No differences in frequency range. Dave also had de-makeuppads (cotton discs) in front of the driver. Sort of what the felt discs do but less 'severe'. As there is quite some difference between L and R I tested both channels. R channel below: a 3dB attenuation above 5kHz. left channel below: On the left channel it removed the 8kHz peak. There are also other differences in the mids but these are most likely from not positioning the earpiece in the same position. The attenuation effect above 5kHz differs from the other channel.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 4, 2014 20:24:31 GMT
Frans, the fr looks different to mine. Dave's is one of the first ones and mine is more recent.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 4, 2014 20:30:47 GMT
What I find curious is why the mids of the left channel are always higher than those of the right channel. I suspect it may have something to do with the cable entry on the left cup as that is more or less 'open'. In your modded K550 this difference has gone but I did seal the cable entry with maleable eraser.
I should investigate if that indeed creates this difference.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 4, 2014 20:58:02 GMT
Hi Frans, I really like the 550s even though your measurements don't give it a perfect 'bill of health' so, even if it proves impossible to upgrade it to where you'd like, please do what you can and I'll be a happy bunny . TIA, Dave. BTW, I'm about to post another thread about something that puzzles me (in Perceptions, I expect is the best place)). Knowing very little about such things I expect apps and plug-ins to basically 'paint' a truthful picture so that, if two are running simultaneously in the same (foobar) program they would tend to support each other, but maybe not so - more to follow on the new thread . Dave.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Feb 4, 2014 21:12:31 GMT
What I find curious is why the mids of the left channel are always higher than those of the right channel. I suspect it may have something to do with the cable entry on the left cup as that is more or less 'open'. In your modded K550 this difference has gone but I did seal the cable entry with maleable eraser. I should investigate if that indeed creates this difference. It also suggests either quality control isn't great or there have been changes. The cable entry would partially break the seal I guess. Never thought of that, Frans. Dave, mine is a different headphone now. Still retains the original character but the top is more controlled now.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 5, 2014 14:11:56 GMT
Modified !
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 5, 2014 15:29:13 GMT
Modified ! Hi Frans, Does the plot above refer to my specific cans? If so it's a lot smoother (more level) than it was, so many thanks. Dave.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Feb 5, 2014 15:30:48 GMT
Yes, your specific cans and they are already on their way back !
I hope I got the right address and you didn't move house in the last few years... Just thought of that...
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 12, 2014 19:15:38 GMT
I forgot all about this thread and now wonder how you found them, Dave?
I have also not said a great deal about mine either.
I've been using them for some time now and they have shown themselves to be very brutally honest in the way that they portray music. If you use low bit files, the headphones really show this. There is a squashed dynamic and a bass that kind of lacks real impact. There is no sting in the treble on my modded headphone any more, but it easily shows treble anomalies with lower bit files.
A good recording blossoms. The bass appears and goes deeper than you'd think at first. If there isn't a lot of bass content in the recording, the headphone doesn't 'plant' any on top so nothing much is being masked by a bass hump!! If bass isn't there, the modded headphone sounds thin. If it is there, it produces it and also seems to go down a long way too.
With headphones that Frans has 'flattened' for me, I always feel very tempted to turn the volume up. They go up much more easily than other headphones without a treble glare so you can be blissfully unaware of just how loud you are listening. Since there is no bass bloom planted onto the recording, you tend to up the volume until you feel that the bass starts to hit like a headphone with a bass hump!! It's very tempting until common sense tells you, they are getting a bit too loud.
To me, neutral headphones sound at their best a bit louder. They go louder without humps getting boosted I guess and so go up a lot easier than most. For instance, a headphone like the K701 turns very nasty for me at high volume. I can only listen to them at middle to low volume (and so give up on real bass presence by doing so) So I get the volume to a point where the treble starts to bite and then back down.
With bass ridden headphones, I up the volume until the bass is focused, but not dominating. In other words, I'm identifying where the headphone peaks are (to some extent) and getting the volume to the point where those peaks don't dominate too much, and leave the volume there since it kind of snaps into focus. (It's different for every headphone)
With treated headphones, there is no real reference frequency to focus on tbh. It goes up pretty evenly so it can be difficult to decide what volume to listen at!!! At really low volume, they can sound (to me) nasal. I think that's because the extremes will sound as though they've dropped away to our ears. So I continue up in volume until the headphone mids seem focused. However, you can easily go further because the bass continues to grow and the treble doesn't turn anything like as edgy as some headphones can get.
That's what happens with the modded K550. It's less fussy with volume and I prefer it at medium to high. Clarity is unbelievably good and inner detail is very apparent as a result of a better frequency balance. There's a kind of lack of any real emphasis in the sound (some may say bland) so that you don't sit in 'awe' of the massive bass or 'stinging cymbal' sounds. It doesn't show that unless there really is a rumble on the recording. When you get that rumble, you kind of appreciate that the headphone is reproducing really what is on the recording without planting it's own 'sound' on top.
It gives good depth information too. Maybe improved 'acoustic' information helps to resolve depth. On the K550, I am much more aware of the depth of the sounds. I can't exactly 'place' the sounds (which for me is normal on a headphone), but I can tell very easily what is further back in the room while also differentiating differing distances back too. I've just listened to a recording where the vocals etc are in the front, drums are behind in the middle but behind the drums is a string orchestra. That seemed an odd way to mix the recording so I listened on another headphone to compare. The strings and drums seem to be on the same plane on the other headphones, yet the K550 is separating them in terms of depth into the recording.
No bloom whatsoever on voices. Even at loud volume. BBC voices are typical 'chesty' mic sounds, focused on the mids but music still contains good depth.
So after listening to the K550 for some time now, I'm very pleased with the sound of them and Frans mods have really worked wonders on a headphone that I struggled with; especially in the treble region which I found verging on painful to listen to with some music. There was a real hard top edge to them before which has now really been tamed a lot and the overall sound has become way more balanced to listen to, although it is also extremely analytical and points out poor sounds with razor like bluntness.
DAB radio is awful. It really shows how poor the format in the UK is to be perfectly honest. It's gritty in the treble and lacks real depth in the bass. Dynamics are awful and the headphone shows it in glorious technicolour.
So inside the K550, there is a very analytical and flat headphone sleeping with the mods that Frans has applied to it.
It reacts to output impedance now like a banshee. (Or at least the filter does) For me, I like higher impedance since it sounds bigger but for accuracy, low output impedance is probably more accurate. Trouble with me is that I can't resist that raised bass by having a higher output impedance!!
The more I play around with headphones, the more I get convinced that 'flat' as possible is the way to go. It's defining what flat is that might be a hot topic one day. I think that debate is growing - what is the ideal for a headphone? There is no doubt that my T40 and K550 both get into the music in a way that no other headphone I have does. I might not always like the timbre of what I hear, but in the end, it's the damned recording that I don't like I think, because the headphone gets inside and I can hear with unbelievanble clarity what's going on inside the music. I was just listening to a rock band playing. On these two headphones, I can plainly hear a lone acoustic (steel) guitar playing away in the middle of the band and I can easily make out the notes he's playing. Other headphones don't pick him out anything like as easily because they kind of mask it with their own colourations.
The modded K550 is a good 'un for sure but I wonder how many people like the sound of a 'flat' headphone following all the ramped headphones they've heard in the past. I'm so much more aware now of how much headphones are ramped in the bass or treble and how that kind of dominates everything they play. It can improve nasty recordings by planting their own sound on top, but it's not accurate at all and far less easy to hear what's going on inside the mix.
The modded K550 does that with ease.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 12, 2014 20:53:25 GMT
I forgot all about this thread and now wonder how you found them, Dave. Ian, My ears are not as young, educated or experienced as yours so my ability to describe what I'm hearing is somewhat limited. I can only refer you to this thread, with the benefit of hindsight it should obviously have been a post on this thread: - diyah.boards.net/thread/574/curedMy description of headphones is limited to good, so-so or not-so, with a few more basic details as to why. I could perhaps have said a bit more about how good my Fransified K550s are, and why, but I thought that saying that I am no longer interested in hearing alternatives probably said all that I needed to say. I am absolutely delighted with them and now never use anything else when cans are required, end of!! A brief question to Frans: - I know you are aware of some figures from my audiologist giving some information about my hearing losses so can I ask if you tweaked your tweaks on my K550s to compensate for those losses (customised for me) or did you just tweak them to give the flattest response they are capable of, irrespective of my specific hearing losses? In any case, many many thanks for the excellent job - it really is very greatly appreciated. Cheers, Dave.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 12, 2014 21:42:35 GMT
I'm glad Frans got them to where you like them Dave. There was a great headphone underneath the K550 you see!! Yes, I enjoy it a great deal as well. Actually, they make a good match with the K601, with one being open and the other closed. Pretty close to each other in sound.
Nice to have a matching pair!!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 12, 2014 22:00:52 GMT
My listening requirements do not include a need for open cans, I don't believe (but open to education ). My preferred way to listen is via speakers but two large problems loom in this area. Not having a dedicated listening room, one is WAF which I cannot and would not want to over rule (even if I could ). The second is that, when listening to cans, whether in house or out in the open, I'm much too conscious of polluting the immediate surroundings with unwanted noise to inflict that on any one - brought up proper, I was . My ambition is to find a really magical pair of speakers that produce a sound I love, that pass the WAF and that I can afford. I can 'see' the first one as being possible but the other two are no-hopers so I'll stick with my Mission 774e pair. Don't get me wrong, I really like them but I'm fairly sure there must be better ones out there. Cheers, Dave.
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Post by solderdude on Apr 13, 2014 8:06:09 GMT
It was made 'flat' so it sounds as realistic as possible (but on the bass-shy side because of no bass hump) not corrected for your hearing. That can only be (partly) done by an active filter and you may find that too bright as your brain is now used to not hearing above certain frequencies and corrects for that.
Playing around with a tone control on your music player (PC) should reveal IF you would benefit from such a (custom) filter.
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