mashv
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Post by mashv on Jan 9, 2014 19:33:07 GMT
So actually both of them are comparable and good only for casual listeners? Tyll talked(if i remember correctly) of UE6000 comparable to mid fi range headphones(in some ways), but i doubt ae51st are too. I only wanted to understand if beetween ae51st and UE6000 there's a big gap or are similar, and if beetween these and 150 headphones(audio technica m50 comes in mind) there's also a big gap(i'm referring mostly to ae51st that i like more).
All this because i don't know if ae51st are considered cheap "decent" toy to listen some music, or are effectively good to start, also because for me 100€ at this moment are "big budget", and i want to buy the "best" pair of headphones for this price, if ae51st are comparable to CAL! and they're nearly there, i'd obviously prefer the firsts for a visual preferrence, keep that in mind, i'd choose CAL! or UE6000 only if by sound there was a huge disadvantage from ae51st. Thank you anyway for the clarification, at both of you.
edit: I also forgot, you have a pair of ae51st right? How warranty works? If bought from amazon.co.uk(i'm italian) who should i refer to if headphones have some problems? I contacted Accidentally Extraordinary by facebook and site form, but never had a response.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 9, 2014 20:00:54 GMT
The biggest problem with advising which headphone to buy is taste.
Person A may like headphone A and may not like headphone B. Person B may have reversed preference or like them bot or not.
Sometimes I completely agree with Tylls findings and in other cases I cannot agree with what's being said about it in the least. I do know I hear somewhat similar to Ian (Rabbit) so when relying on reviews it is important to 'know' the reviewers ears by comparing your experiences with the same headphone to those of the reviewer.
For buying 'first' headphones this, of course, is not possible.
In this case, however, it is nigh-on impossible to demo them somewhere. Perhaps the sound of the AE51 is more or less 'comparable' to another well known headphone, one that may be present in many shops. If so you could demo that and expect a similar sound. Know of one that sounds somewhat similar Ian ?
I do not think the UE600 en AE51 are seriously different sounding than comparable priced headphones aimed at the 'fashionable young' of today. They seem tuned and marketed for that audience and would not call them typical 'hifi' headphones.
They will be somewhat similar in sound to higher priced 'established' ones, think Sony MDR1, B&W P3 for instance.
Perhaps in the secondhand market you could find some good deals for E 100.- if the choice is all about sound (and portability)
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 9, 2014 20:04:26 GMT
I'd say that both are not hi fi headphones whereas the Fostex are most definitely more 'accurate' sounding. If I'm honest, I don't really see these two as serious headphones, but more for a bit of fun. I tend to have headphones all over the place and will pick up whatever is around and use it but I wouldn't be so happy if they were my only headphone.
Of the two, the CAL would be easier to live with.
As far as the guarantees go - I've never really had a headphone go 'wrong' unless I've sat on them or something. Generally, they are pretty robust but for me, they are fairly low priced headphones and a fun listen.
A lot of my listening is done via Ipods so I can't use something like a Fostex. I do have the Senn Momentum and the Beyer DT1350, but even those two have their own sets of problems, so I prefer to have a set of problems at a lower price!!
AE51 is brilliant for walking around. CAL - more for listening sat down. Both very easy to drive. Mind you, for wandering around, I really do like the Senn ie8 although that one is also quite bassy. (iem's)
Also, personal preference really comes into play here and I know that I prefer a slight lift in the bass and don't mind treble rolled away since it allows louder playing without pain for my ears. It is always difficult to come up with a cut and dried answer to questions like 'what do you prefer' since I don't really mind either. I do prefer the CAL but wouldn't walk around outside with them. If one set was a really high flyer, then I'd probably prefer them, but these two are close in terms of sound with my preference being the CAL. Then again, it costs more too.
The CAL is more in line with the M50 which isn't quite as 'lively' sounding to me. It sounds quite 'ordinary', which probably means it's flatter, but I like the timbre of the CAL although it would be improved with a touch less boom. It would be more balanced without that rumble.
The AE51 sound kind of resembles the Momentum, but it isn't as 'etched' sounding and as open sounding. (Treble rolls off a bit more) However, the Momentums can be a bit uncomfortable too for long periods and the AE51 is very soft. I can't get on with the Beyer DT1350 sound at all for too long since for me it's nasal and edgy. If it was a warmer headphone, I wouldn't mind them.
Technically, the CAL is better, but it's also more expensive. It has quite a bass bloom which is what most people really might not like. It does have an open sound though and the 'stage' seems to be wider than many closed headphones. It might need a bit of padding in the cups to tame the bass, but I don't mind them as they are.
Sometimes I completely agree with Tylls findings and in other cases I cannot agree with what's being said about it in the least.
That's the same for me, Frans. I guess we all hear differently, but I really do respect his views and the way that he does the reviews of headphones. I think your preference is for less bass than me tbh, but flattish basically suits me best of all since the Fostex are my most used home headphone nowadays.
You also have the added advantage of being able to measure them whereas I'm an on the head person!! As you know perfectly, on the head is a dangerous way to review a headphone because my 'mood' and what I have been listening to previously could well affect how I perceive a headphone which is a fact that I am acutely aware of.
The closest headphone to the CAL in terms of sound that I have here is the Momentum I guess, Frans.
mashv, consider the original CAL if you don't like a bass led sound. It's possibly more balanced and is a lot cheaper. I'm not fussed about the build but it is preferred by some since it's less 'thick' sounding.
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mashv
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Post by mashv on Jan 9, 2014 20:30:47 GMT
Are you talking of CAL! or CAL!2? Because as i can understand CAL! costs less than both of those, it costs 50€ on creative site. If you're referring to CAL!2 i heard it has to much emphasis on bass and while i like them i prefer smoth and warm bass instead of bombastic ones. Now i go to eat, after i will answer to both of you and ty , you nailed a lot of crucial points for my eventual decision.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 9, 2014 20:37:47 GMT
Are you talking of CAL! or CAL!2? Because as i can understand CAL! costs less than both of those, it costs 50€ on creative site. If you're referring to CAL!2 i heard it has to much emphasis on bass and while i like them i prefer smoth and warm bass instead of bombastic ones. Now i go to eat, after i will answer to both of you and ty , you nailed a lot of crucial points for my eventual decision. I was talking about the CAL2, but the CAL1 is less bass led and many find it less muddy. I think Tyll prefers the CAL1 as well. Also, I think that I tend to see/hear the best qualities in headphones rather than scout around for all of the problems. To me, most headphones have 'problems' so I think I'm possibly more accepting than many. I can also adapt to them very quickly I think. The AE51 is great straight from an Ipod. It warms the Ipod sound up and because it's kind of more 'focused' sounding, it sounds louder and so you can drive it to quite high levels. The CAL2 is more spaced out and sounds softer in volume as a result and is (imo) slightly better from an amp.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 9, 2014 20:59:05 GMT
When I feel a headphone is 'good' then it has a 'character' (they are ALL different sounding) that is easy to 'tune' into and sound realistic.
With that I mean that they sound good on initial listening and still do after a few hours and not reveal 'killing' or annoying negative traits during that time. So a headphone may be dark, bright, neutral or bassy sounding yet remain pleasant to hear, where less successful headphones either sound crappy directly or sound good on first listen and start to show annoying traits after a while, create listening fatigue or when you can't wait to throw them off.
Great headphones sound excellent (with well made recordings) and crappy with crappy recordings. They sound good from the moment you put them on (instant adaptation of the brain to its presentation) to where you hate to take them off after relaxing completely. They also still sound good when comparing them to other excellent headphones. In general these are expensive headphones.
Some headphones sound great on their own and only reveal their 'shortcomings' that aren't killing otherwise on direct comparison. The CAL! and Koss PortaPro/KSC35/KSC75/HD238 are a few of them. Sound absolutely believable and good on their own but when you switch over to a 'better' headphone you immediately hear that something is 'off'. Yet, when you put them on the next day they sound wonderful again. (It's what Ian means with adopting to them easily) Comfort is also very important and to some the looks are too (when wearing in public)
If the AE51 does that for you then you could be happy with it for what it does.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jan 9, 2014 21:05:48 GMT
You're better at English than me, Frans!! That's exactly it. Funnily enough, the CAL2 bass is it's lovely part but also can be its Achilles heel. It does depend what you are listening to. I have one of my own now and if that bass starts to become a 'negative' I go to the AE51 which doesn't have deep bass although a raised mid bass which sometimes cleans the sound up for me. (Just because it won't go down there!!) In any case, the target audience for these headphones is Ipod people. Not hi fi so I regard them as such and for that purpose, they are good. I certainly wouldn't be using them to work with!! Swings and roundabouts. Funnily enough, one that I find hard to listen to for long periods is the HD598. The treble soon gets to me and I keep thinking that I should stick with it because it's supposed to be such a good headphone, but for me, it's one of those borderline headphones where I feel it can sound ok, but soon becomes tiring. Then I go to the HD595 which I find less fatiguing. I think also, one thing about this hobby is that we read reviews and buy headphones, always thinking that something else is better and never seem to settle with anything!! Probably, without all of these forums, we'd all buy our Fanny Wang headphones and mostly not know what we're missing.
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mashv
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Post by mashv on Jan 9, 2014 22:01:20 GMT
I want to buy a pair of Headphones coming from a pair of 10€ in ear, i don't pretend to have the 500€ quality and sound fidelity with a 100€ headphone and you clarified most of my doubts. I understand that a lot of these headphones are not meant to be professional and good for monitoring, but i hope switching from cheap in ear and pc audio speakers, the jump will be worth the cost. I want to listen to music, relax and ear notes and details i can't ear with my previous tools. I know there's always something better and 100€ headphones are good for what they cost, but are them a worth improvement? They're something that will make me think, "omg i love it, i want more", and maybe with the time upgrade to something better/different, or are these only good ipod headphones that obviously changes something but not radically? I'm not a professionist, i don't need them for professional purpose or to analize anything, but i love listening music and details in it, while obviously enjoying and feeling it. I see myself upgrading to something better if i'll like this microcosm, but actually i don't have a lot of money(neither job ) so i need to compensate hoping 100€ headphones are not too "commercial" oriented flattening the quality of the sound. I want something that wraps me up and makes me grow from listening aspect. If you say this can be a good start i'm ok, if instead this is a complete different field where these kind of headphones have their purpose and nothing more, being good for what they do...well that's still ok and wait for when i have 300 euros , hoping the gap of quality is worth the price. But as solderdude said maybe it's something not so obvious and more something that you "feel" is better only when you switch from one to another, so maybe for now these kind of headphone could do their job. I don't know . Sorry for my bad English .
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mashv
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Post by mashv on Jan 9, 2014 22:18:00 GMT
Oh i forgot, what kind of used headphones you can find at 100€? Some examples?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jan 9, 2014 22:30:18 GMT
Consider a pair of Superlux HD681-EVO and buy the Chinese pads. This is a very pleasant listen that won't give any fatigue and won't break the bank, great entry and beats much more expensive headphones. Something like Takstar Pro80 for instance ?
For 2nd hand it all depends on what some people ask for their headphones.
FIRST you must decide WHAT you want to use it for: On the go (portable) or only at home or both.
Do you want on-ears (some can have a lot of pressure on the ears and may even hurt and if you are wearing glasses this may be a problem) Do you want over-ears ?
Closed (to shut sounds out) or open (so you can hear those around you)
leather or velours ?
Also consider temperatures, when it gets hot in the summer over-ears may make you sweat in minutes while on-ears can be worn longer.
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mashv
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Post by mashv on Jan 9, 2014 23:26:52 GMT
Both on the go and home, but priority is home, maybe i'll use them while i'll go to work this march(i'll have to travel for 40km)and from there i don't know, i'm not used to use them in public, i always used in ear, but i can change my behaviour. Over-ears, i don't care about sweat, in summer i cut my hairs very short and i feel good , head is not my principal sweating spot. Closed, i don't care about what's happening around when i use them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 0:51:01 GMT
Hi Mashv,
Welcome to the forum.
Since you mention you are coming from a pair "of €10 in ear" pods, would it be fair to assume you are listening to them using a PC/i-pod/mp3 player and without the benefit of a discrete headphone amp??
If you intend to continue to use your new headphones in this way, then this should be factored into your decision-making process. E.G. you may be interested in a particular headphone which is relatively easy to drive and so would suit you at the moment with your present source/amplification.
But there are many very good headphones which can be had for around the €100 mark second-hand. Think DT770/880/990, SR60/80, lots of AKG and Senns etc. The thing is, most of the better ones need to be amped to give of their best, so this is something to keep in mind.
TBH, almost any headphone you choose at around the €100 mark will be such a big step up that you'll surely love them. I personally wouldn't get too bogged down in choosing between detailed descriptions of sound signatures since your source/amp would probably struggle to highlight them in a clearcut manner anyway.
There are so many factors to take in to account, sometimes it can seem quite daunting, but taking time now, to think through exactly what you want (and what you might want in the future) will pay dividends in listening pleasure -and Euros!!
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mashv
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Post by mashv on Jan 10, 2014 1:11:19 GMT
Hi to you , actually i have an old hi-fi(stereo with amp, cd audio, cassette, speakers) that sometime ago i connected to pc audio port with an adaptor from left/right(i don't know how it's called, they don't fit to normal audio in) connector to 3,5 jack. I also have an Onkyo home theater amp, i don't know if they could work and how much quality loss is there connecting them with normal jack, but it worked well. Now is all unmounted because i feared it would have consumed too much electricity and i felt better use normal speakers. In the eventuality i would mount it if needed and try if the electricity consume would repay in listening pleasure.
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Post by MaN227 on Jan 10, 2014 4:02:05 GMT
I understand your position mashv, its hard to not be able to hear different headphones before you buy them, only rely on what people on a forum say about them. most folks don't want to tell you to buy this or that headphone cause its better than your other choice, I suppose cause they don't want to have you feel they have mislead you and you have even more buyers remorse should you not like them. you seem to have a real like for the ae51, and being as such I bet you will like them. you love the look and build of the ae51 so it will be easier to like them overall including sound. with other headphones you perhaps may like their sound better, but don't like the look of them and will have to convince yourself its ok to be seen in public with headphones you feel don't look good even if they sound good. you can take or dismiss any advice/observations given that you find on this or any other forum. I will suggest you REwatch the video tyll did posted at the start of this thread by rabbit, you may pick up on some things he says that you perhaps missed first time around). if your music source has an EQ I'm fairly certain you can adjust it to suit what you want to hear and be quite happy with them. how can I say this ? well I was not going to mention it as I'm no golden ear, headphone wizz, and do MUCH more asking then telling about headphones and how they sound, and don't feel "qualified" to speak about them to be totally frank. So, if you find others reluctant to tell you they would be a good purchase, Imagine how I feel! but I have the ae51's and have been listening (and very much enjoying them) for nearly a week now. my impressions in a nutshell, I'm HAPPY with my purchase. for the money I feel they sound very good. I have played them via foobar2000 from my pc via a dac and headphone amps, I mention this as you don't hear much about them being listened to this way but rather mobile , unamped via a phone or idod. with some EQ adjustments I can get VERY satisfying sound from them. my biggest niggle thus far has been the mids are not very forward, many use the term veiled. bottom end I found quite good, perhaps a tad loose or slow might be a better word. It's good enough that I can pick out and seperate bass drum and bass guitar lines, and goes deep enough for me(and I quite like my bass. mids sound good on brass, woodwinds, and voice, I blame the bass hump for the mids seeming a little recessed. top end, its not extended as the spectrum is rolled off on top. I personally like a warmer sound that rolled off top end gives, I HATE tinny grating highs. U like metal I recall you saying. not sure if you consider black sabbath metal but i have been very much enjoying their latest album 13 via the ae51's. guitars are solid, snare drum sounds real, cymbals sound real, high hat as well. on a side note this is a VERY good album. Listening to Jackie Evancho ( a true child prodigy NOT to be missed) vocals sound very smooth, lush comes to mind. strings and woodwinds sound real to me as well. those are my regular guy thoughts of the ae 51's sound. I'm quite pleased with them. your feelings may vary. bear in mind I do not claim any particular knowledge, I'm just a guy who loves headphones and ALL kinds of music played through headphones. are the ae 51's the best sounding headphones I have? nope the sennheiser hd650 still holds that spot(many call them warm sounding and veiled too, I happen to love them), but the ae 51's are closer to the top of my listening pleasure pile of cans then they are the bottom. seeing as though u are coming from cheap iem's I have a feeling you'll be pleased if you purchase the ae51's, or any other cans mentioned in this thread, as they ALL surely are better than cheap iems, to be sure. This price point also is a good place to "get your feet wet" in this world of headphones and amps. I should warn you, this "hobby" is addictive, so read all that you can about products that catch your eye, as its very hard to feel confident on what to buy, and you will see TONS of posts on forums to the line of you think headphone A is better than headphone B, I do it myself. there are SO SO many variables and the worst of it is, sound is VERY VERY subjective, so weigh out what you read and who is saying it, you will find after time you "trust" some folks more that others, and this forum has some very knowledgeable folks, and most importantly folks here that are willing to help and not make you feel bad for not knowing. the only stupid questions are the one's not asked. I have not heard the other headphones mentioned in this thread, and do not claim the ae 51 is better than any of them. , but I'm happy with the ae51 purchase. at the end of the day YOU need to be HAPPY with what you have purchased, and something tells me you really want to buy the ae51's and are looking for someone to tell you to buy the headphones you want, the ae51's . So, I say go for it, buy the ae51's. and hey if you don't like them I"m sure you can recoup at least part of your money reselling them on one of the forums or an auction site. you have to start somewhere. btw I quite like your avatar mashv it has the warm energy of a person with a good heart and soul, that's what I feel from it. perhaps that will seem odd but hey, I "feel" things others don't at times. Peace, MaN227
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 4:27:09 GMT
Chaz, you should write more!! Great post full of common sense, and great down-to-earth advice for a newbie This forum's really beginning to gel.
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