solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Mar 10, 2015 18:13:44 GMT
DT770 on steroids.... Sounds a bit like the TH900 description. Deep big bass not bleeding in the mids. Non sharp mids and gentle treble (though slightly lower in level than TH900) The bass is somewhat over the top with some recordings but the 'bass-poor' recordings on 'flat headphones' sound warm and full. I had this filter which sounds like a stock DT770 without the treble peak: For the fun of it I am going to make a filter that has a tad more treble and in bass levels between the 'DT770 on steroids' and the 'correctly corrected' DT770 I get the TH900 remarks... big bass, not bleeding and 'fast' with clear yet not shrill mids/voices and soft treble (can't call it smooth alas)
|
|
Rabbit
Administrator
Posts: 7,087
|
Post by Rabbit on Mar 10, 2015 19:36:01 GMT
The sub bass is quite massive, Frans. It looks a bit th900. Bass looks bigger though. Does the bass bloat out? It doesn't on the th900. The second graph looks a lot tidier. Do you know what causes that deep suck out?
It doesn't look too bad actually.
It's very healthy down low, below 100 and treble extension isn't too bad either. Quite extended really.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Mar 10, 2015 20:03:22 GMT
It is a bit too massive on some recordings. There is also quite a difference between L and R.
The bass looks humongous on my plots but in reality 20Hz is just 5dB above 1kHz which is a mild boost. Just turn up the 20 or 31Hz slider by +5dB to get about the same. It is about the same boost of the TH900 by the way but the TH900 has it slightly higher up in the bass.
Peaks don't look that high in the 1/3 oct smoothed 'DT770 on steroids' plot yet are exactly the same as in the 'filtered' plot below.
Smoothing smooths the plots and is done to 'remove' sharp peaks and dips that may be a measurement artifact or may be real. Also our ears do not detect narrow peaks as such. The average level is what we hear and what smoothed plots show. It makes you wonder about other GE plots (all smoothed 1/3 octave which is a LOT of smoothing). Peaks and dips may be humongous in reality with some plots.
The dip in the DT770 measures 'real' and is caused by rear sound combining with front waves (via the edges of the driver) and cancelling each other. It isn't completely a measurement thing nor all reality. When you play a sweep you don't hear the nulling, just slightly less energy there. This is because our Pinna also change the sound waves in the cup amongst other things. It is there though about similar as in the 'on steroids' plot.
It is also visible in plots taken by others (and smoothed) but not as big but they have a real 'dummy head' with pinna.
|
|
Rabbit
Administrator
Posts: 7,087
|
Post by Rabbit on Mar 10, 2015 20:12:41 GMT
Oh, I see, so it's a 'null' point. I guess acoustic filling wouldn't help this?
The th900 bass doesn't interfere at all with the mids. It seems almost separate. The other thing I've noticed, comparing d2000 ... The treble on the th900 is way more open without being harsh. I'm not certain where that 'presence' is, but it makes a massive difference to the spacial clues. Worth emulating if it's possible on lesser headphones.
I didn't look at the scale. It's not as massive as I thought then. I think with the bass, if you're used to a flat sound, it feels massive at first. I noticed that straight away with the th900 but soon kind of tuned in. Since the bass separates away from the rest and is so fast, it doesn't feel that raised to me. The slight 'u' shape kind of balances at each end I think.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Mar 10, 2015 20:16:21 GMT
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Mar 11, 2015 15:03:14 GMT
The DT770 on the Kameleon with Bass Boost added does this: Sounds very impressive. Below the stock DT770 vs the Kameleon I had more bass boost earlier but didn't like it that much. Probably the cups add too much 'one note bass resonance' higher up. The filter I have now lowers the 'one note bass' region and boosts the subbass. Still half that of the TH900 which boosts +10dB opposite the mids. I kept the treble a bit lively (as in Beyer treble) but lowered it 5dB. This makes this headphone sound quite good and lively with tighter and deeper bass and non piercing yet present upper treble. Not a 'flat' headphone but pleasantly U shaped.
|
|
Rabbit
Administrator
Posts: 7,087
|
Post by Rabbit on Mar 11, 2015 16:04:59 GMT
It looks calmer and really nice that the treble is slightly down. They can be a bit zingy up top. It's kind of emulating the th900! Even the mids are a bit similar.
At least if it won't go exactly flat, then at least it does an impression of a sound that might be liked more. Many might enjoy the 'u' shape rather than a more severe 'v' so that they sound a little more sophisticated.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Mar 13, 2015 18:38:55 GMT
I wasn't satisfied with the results. The boosted bass isn't really helping for the DT770 so I deciced to make it really flat. This sounds better to my ear. Maybe not as 'fun' as big bass though. Still it goes incredibly deep (down to 5Hz at 0dB!!!!) and the treble is calmer and well extended. It still isn't a 'smooth' sounding headphone but it is very accurate and better than I had thought it could sound.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Mar 14, 2015 10:31:29 GMT
I wanted to see the differences in bass quality as the DT770 (even filtered) still shows some signs of 'resonance' deep down low compared to the EQ'ed DT990 I made CSD plots of both (stock) headphones for frequencies down to 10Hz. Below the DT770Pro-250 Below the DT990Pro-250 There is quite some differences in the decay of the bass. The DT770 keeps on 'ringing' for 0.15 seconds before it is down -40dB The DT990 is not doing this and the decay is much faster. That long 'resonating' in the lows is what's bothering me with these headphones. Granted with the filter this is improved a bit but still not as good as the filtered DT990. You should ONLY look at the frequencies below 200Hz.
|
|
solderdude
Administrator
measureutternutter
Posts: 4,881
|
Post by solderdude on Mar 14, 2015 21:39:34 GMT
I made the time scales the same (they differed)
These plots differ from the usual CSD's. Normal CSD's show frequencies between 500Hz and 20kHz and show resonances above 1kHz.
The plots above are only 'valid' between 10Hz and 200Hz. Everything above 200Hz cannot be 'seen' because of the relatively large time 'steps'.
In normal CSD's the time from the rear to the front is about 5ms. In the plots above this time is 150ms (30 times longer)
What these plots show is that the DT770 resonates quite long and in a large amplitude. The DT990 decays much faster below 100Hz.
I think this shows what I don't like in the DT770's... the bass notes not being 'clearly defined' as other phones do. The bass is deep and impressive but lacks 'quality' in the DT770.
|
|
oldson
extremely active
Posts: 1,677
|
Post by oldson on Feb 19, 2016 18:21:50 GMT
Ian, how do these compare to the d600, are they in same league?
|
|
Rabbit
Administrator
Posts: 7,087
|
Post by Rabbit on Feb 22, 2016 19:22:03 GMT
Sorry Simon. I must have missed this.
I think that the dt770 is better in that it isn't as thick sounding as the d600. Better isolation. More strident treble and hard hitting bass but the funny thing is, I get a better defined bass although I know that one common criticism of them is a 'one note' bass. I don't get that with the 250 ohm version, although I think the 80 ohm version could be a bit more like that.
Mids are back a bit in the mix. Kind of similar to the th900. Again, I don't mind that since it doesn't produce boom in mens' voices where the d690 is more prone to that.
I still think that the d600 is good though and is a great movie headphone.
Of course, there is always the dt150 which is less treble sharp if you prefer a smoother sound.
|
|
oldson
extremely active
Posts: 1,677
|
Post by oldson on Feb 23, 2016 13:41:24 GMT
Treat yourself to a dt1770 and then compare to filtered dt770? ? Go on..... you know it makes sense ?
|
|
Rabbit
Administrator
Posts: 7,087
|
Post by Rabbit on Feb 23, 2016 15:50:01 GMT
Stop it you naughty F***er. I KNOW it makes sense!! In fact, I'm sitting here having just picked up my noisy daughter from school so to block her noise out, I've put the DT770 on to listen on my new cream leather chair, reclined like being at the dentist's to Tchaikovsky's 5th Symphony on Radio 3. Essential because the dish washer is going! They are very good .... But the dt1770 is better ..... But the wife ...... But ...... I'm waiting for her to do something mean to me so that she feels guilty and encourages me to get something. Have been a very good boy, hoovering, painting, putting up a new hifi shelf unit, treating the leather on the suite. I have my scan tomorrow so she's probably easily convinced ........ I'll make out that it hurts when I get back.
|
|
Rabbit
Administrator
Posts: 7,087
|
Post by Rabbit on Feb 23, 2016 16:22:00 GMT
Moved on to Shpongle now. That has what I call 'gut' bass and the dt770 becomes an absolute monster .......
I switched to the D600 and you know, it really isn't a bad sound either. I'd say treble is a bit 'harder' or more 'steely' sounding perhaps so the dt770 sounds a little wider. Really not as bad as I read about them imo. A lot more sensitive though, which is why I tend to use them with portable amps when I'm away from home since they give such a big sound.
Personally, I think the look and fit of the d600 put many off. (Plus the fact that the bass is raised) I find it ok though tbh.
I guess th900, dt770 and d600 are what we term as 'basshead' headphones?
|
|