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Post by jorge8 on Sept 1, 2014 10:59:43 GMT
+1 tumbs up for the Kameleon. I received it from Javier with the "generic" filter. Setup: FiiO X5, Kameleon and Senn Momentum. Notes: Overall very clean and transparent sound. Deep and tight bass. Nice detailed top extension but never harsh. Mids are a little on the lean side. Maybe it's called neutral presentation.  Rediscovering my gB of music, mostly classical and jazz. Almost all acoustic. Congrats Frans! Thanks Javier! |
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Sept 1, 2014 21:50:00 GMT
The real strength of this amp lies in the custom filters.
Which headphone(s) do you use amd would like to see 'improved'.
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Post by jorge8 on Sept 2, 2014 11:13:01 GMT
The real strength of this amp lies in the custom filters. Which headphone(s) do you use amd would like to see 'improved'. I also have HD650 but I don't use it outdoors. I'm in touch with Javier and I may buy that filter also. It seems that there is no filter designed for the Senn Momentum, but as I said this "generic" filter sounds perfect. Can you confirm the measurements of the Senn Momentum Over-ear with this filter? Is there room for improvement? |
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Sept 2, 2014 13:04:44 GMT
As far as I can tell from the measurements out there it has a few dB too much bass and a fraction too much warmth and lacks top end extension (freq above 12kHz) which should be most obvious with strings and cymbals in well made recordings.
It does seem to have a proper clarity and amount of treble.
What a filter could bring for the Momentum is thus slightly less bass/warmth (less boomy ?) and give that nice shimmer on cymbals and strings fro instance.
the tonal balance would be roughly the same but less boomy/bassy.
IF you are interested in such a filter it is no problem designing it (nor for other correctable headphones).
What HD650 do you have, the older one with black drivers or the ones with silvery/white ?
The fun part with the filters is that if you find it compensated too much you (or someone else) can alter the filter somewhat.
If you feel the HD650 somewaht lacks sub bass, is a bit too warm/full sounding and could use a tiny little more clarity and top end then you are in for a treat with the filter.
Also indoors (I only use my HD650 from the kameleon nowadays)
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Post by jorge8 on Sept 2, 2014 16:23:08 GMT
Re Momentum, I'd rather keep this filter. If it is boomy, I like it  Jazz trios sound very nice. The same with piano and bass like Night and the City (K.Barron, C.Haden) an old favorite. I really enjoy the warmish presentation. The top piano notes are under control (some hifi systems would struggle to deal with that). I may try other "flavors" but for the time being I'm enjoying very much this one. Re HD650: It's new ones silver/white. Actually I do have both: it's a HD580 Jubilee with HD650 capsules. And I still have the original HD580 capsules (black). But I prefer the sound of the HD650. I'll be in touch with Javier about that. Thank you very much. |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Sept 2, 2014 16:52:00 GMT
Frans, is it possible to attach a passive link to the Momentum just to lift the top end and leave the bass as it is? If so, that would improve it while retaining it's 'fun' type of sound. It's bass is fast and is rather nice but I find they' roll off a little steep in the treble. Apart from that, they sound really good with excellent presence in the mids. In fact, going from many other portable headphones to these shows just how good they sound, but if you stay with just the Momentum, you kind of adjust and take it's real positives for granted without realising what a good job they do. (A little like you can take the hd650 for granted)
I quite like a more speaker like sound; especially in portables and the raised bass seems to give the sound more body when you're wandering around outside. I think the eyes make the ears adjust so the raised bass makes it sound closer while the eyes tell you something else!! (I hope that makes sense......)
The only thing if a passive was possible, it would need to be a thin link to keep it portable and useable on the move without a 'shell' for the filtering.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Sept 2, 2014 18:28:33 GMT
'Lifting' frequencies always means the correction has to be active.
Only a few dB of lift over a wide range (shelving) can be done passively with some headphones.
The Momentum needs quite some lift in the top end to give it that sparkle.
Of course a filter can be made that leaves the 'fun bass' as it is and just lifts the missing treble part.
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Post by jorge8 on Sept 10, 2014 16:07:13 GMT
Hi Frans
I see what you mean. In some music the bass is a bit too much. However for 95%-98% of the music that I listen to it's ok.
Anyway, can we go ahead with the Momentum filter, leaving half of the warmth?
Thx
Jorge
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Sept 10, 2014 16:40:23 GMT
The thing about the Momentum is that there is a 5db or so hike in the upper bass. I don't find the lower bass very strong tbh. That with its downward tilt into the treble which is rolled away makes it seem less lively than some other headphones. The detail is there in the top, but a bit quieter.
If the treble is raised, it could make the bass 'seem' less and imo, it would sound really nice, with that raised bass still there, so that it is more 'speaker like' in sound. If you hear a flat headphone, you might feel that it is bass light actually, as well.
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Post by jorge8 on Sept 10, 2014 16:57:37 GMT
thx
... and incorporating rabbit's advice.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Sept 10, 2014 18:33:25 GMT
I already designed the filter circuit for it. Have updated the article and it now also has a filter for the Momentum (over ear) It will 'shave off' half of the 'elevated bass' and add the 'sparkle', so more balanced sound. A little raised bass is very much preferred for a lot of headphones on a lot of recordings. A headphone that sounds good on all recordings simply doesn't exist. One that sounds good on high quality recordings makes it a good headphone in my book. Trouble is that some recordings that sounded 'O.K.' might now sound 'less' but the ones that were overly bassy and lacked the 'sparkle' in cymbals etc. will sound better. Should you for instance like the added sparkle but want more bass the filter can always be changed to do so. Good thing is you can stick in the flat one if you want more bass and stick in the filter for high quality recordings. The subbass is even raised a bit and the lower bass/warmth is lowered so the 'movie theater/Shpongle' type of subbass is actually better in proportion. |
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Post by solderdude on Sept 28, 2014 13:37:25 GMT
I wanted another portable but with volume control so I added a buffer circuit (OP275) under the board and added a volume control.  I added another input on the rear panel. The 5V charge input is an SMC connector as I had that lying around and lacked a 2.1 or 2.5mm socket. The rear input socket (also 3.5mm stereo socket) is a line level input and the volume can be controlled on the front. So when using it as a 'portable desktop' amp the front input socket isn't used. The front socket is not connected to the volpot and can be used for portable situations where the vol control of the DAP is going to be used.  The extra opamp isn't visible as it is on the underside of the PCB but the amp is stock otherwise.  I noticed the 4 power supply caps are a bit on the big side (diameter) and had to bend those big caps a bit to the rear in order to get the filter PCB to fit. Will look for smaller diameter caps that work equally well. I also wanted the top cover to slide open easily yet not come off from the amp. On the desktop version I had already made a construction that worked but it slides open/closed to easily. No problem for a desktop as it is always stationary but in case of a portable amp it would be easier if it didn't slide so easily. The top plate has to be filed down on the sides in the front (so the front screws don't block the sliding). The rear side of the top plate is filed down partly so it can slide past the edge of the rear plate screws. When the lid is opened far enough so you can access the filter board the top plate cannot slide any further as the rear screws block it from sliding further because of the wider part being blocked by the screw-head.  This means the rear plate must be filed down in a shape so the lid can slide past it.  In order to make it possible for the lid to slide past the plastic trimming it has to be filed down as well. For the lid to not slide out when closed and slide out easily enough but not too sloppy I glued a small strip of foam-rubber to the trimming. When the top-lid is closed this prevents the top-plate from sliding. In order to change the filter you need to slightly lift the plastic trimmer and you can slide out the top plate. The rubber 'brakes' that action and ensures the trimming cannot scratch the top plate. Works like a charm. |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Sept 28, 2014 15:46:56 GMT
That looks terrific, Frans. I think the vol pot might be missed by many for real fine control of the output. Some headphone outs are crude to say the least. Also, smart move to get the lid to move easier, so enabling quick changes of filter, which is what this amp is for really.
How about an ultimate - Two filters in a home unit to match an open headphone and a closed one?
In my mind, the Kameleon is still kind of developing with regards to ease of use. I've how to get inside with real ease and the volume adjustment having been via the dap only. Would a simple screw down top be more secure and easy to remove? The Ember screw down mechanism is dead easy, although they are too prominent for a portable I guess.
Or a sliding top with tworight angle tags at the bottom to screw into the back? Easy to talk about, but I know not so easy in practice!!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Sept 28, 2014 16:00:26 GMT
Switching filters or bypassing a filter isn't possible with the device powered on.
Also 2 filter circuits on a larger board is asking for instability problems.
screw down tops aren't handy as you need either a screwdriver (for recessed screws) or thick bolts sticking out on top.
Much easier to simply slide it open or closed.
Jeremy is going to make a filter/input selector add-on for usage in front of Garage 1217 amps (fed from 1 power supply)
That one will be for desktop usage and will probably be an open frame thingy.
For portable usage I like to control the volume from the DAP as you are using the DAP buttons/operation to control everything anyway.
On all the DAPs I have used in the past volume control has always worked smoothly and without problems.
Having 2 volume controls may be awkward if one of them suddenly is set loud or one of them too low.
I have added the volcontrol/line in in this version (that won't be on the market unless there is a demand for it) so I can use it as a desktop and portable device.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Sept 28, 2014 16:27:00 GMT
screw down tops aren't handy as you need either a screwdriver (for recessed screws) or thick bolts sticking out on top. Much easier to simply slide it open or closed. Jeremy is going to make a filter/input selector add-on for usage in front of Garage 1217 amps (fed from 1 power supply) That one will be for desktop usage and will probably be an open frame thingy. For portable usage I like to control the volume from the DAP as you are using the DAP buttons/operation to control everything anyway. On all the DAPs I have used in the past volume control has always worked smoothly and without problems. Having 2 volume controls may be awkward if one of them suddenly is set loud or one of them too low. I have added the volcontrol/line in in this version (that won't be on the market unless there is a demand for it) so I can use it as a desktop and portable device. I was think of a couple of bolts on the back rather than the top. If the slide holds then I guess that's it. Norman's old Govibes had them. The filter input selector sounds like a really good idea. Soon, everyone will start using them!!! I think many might think of the Kameleon as a home amp having a filter installed for the 'decent' headphones at home.ie Senn hd650 and similar, rather than Momentums, say. I kind of accept the Momentum bloat mobile, but am not so forgiving sitting at home, where I change to something better like T40, filtered. If a filter add on goes in front of the Garage amps, then I guess the Kameleon would be seen more a portable device and wouldn't need a vol pot. I bet many will be using them as home amps though!! (Cos they're good) |
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Jazz trios sound very nice. The same with piano and bass like Night and the City (K.Barron, C.Haden) an old favorite. I really enjoy the warmish presentation. The top piano notes are under control (some hifi systems would struggle to deal with that).
