solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 8, 2015 15:46:49 GMT
It is easy to work out what the SeNNator will do on other headphones as long as the plot is known. The SeNNator shaves about 3dB from the 150Hz 'hump' ending with no influence above 1kHz. At 60 Hz it is flat. At 20Hz there will be +8dB subbass and at 10Hz +12dB The FR range of the HD650 is flat from <10Hz to >20kHz within 3dB. Below a comparison: SeNNatorKameleonEmber (0.1 Ohm out) I gave the subbass a very small boost.... just for fun.  |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 8, 2015 15:54:38 GMT
Crikey Frans. Is that the plot of the Kameleon that I heard? The SeNNator looks really tastey!! +3db at 30hz? Flat at 10? WOW.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 8, 2015 16:01:01 GMT
Yep, the same Kameleon.
Subbass is great on the SeNNator.
For me the 3dB boost at 30Hz is a bit too much so when I make the final instructions on how to build a SeNNator I will include the option of subbass boost or flat.
For my version it will be flatter with a tiny... tiny little less warmth than the Kameleon has and just 1dB boost at 30Hz.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 8, 2015 16:07:30 GMT
I know I like a raised bass, but not sure about sub bass!!!  I'll check out the th900!! If anything, th900 is about +1 db at 30. Big hump further up though. Might be a bit strong. |
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z3d
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Post by z3d on Apr 8, 2015 20:47:48 GMT
It is easy to work out what the SeNNator will do on other headphones as long as the plot is known. The SeNNator shaves about 3dB from the 150Hz 'hump' ending with no influence above 1kHz. At 60 Hz it is flat. At 20Hz there will be +8dB subbass and at 10Hz +12dB The FR range of the HD650 is flat from <10Hz to >20kHz within 3dB. Below a comparison: SeNNatorKameleonEmber (0.1 Ohm out) I gave the subbass some extra boost.... just for fun. That's a questions I wanted to ask you from a a while. Do you got some plots of an HD600/HD650 with/without filter on a Ember that shows the differences in FR at different output resistance? (1R, 35R, 120R)? Really interested in that!  |
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z3d
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Post by z3d on Apr 8, 2015 20:47:58 GMT
This looks like a job for ...... SeNNator Not available in any stores.
This is only a prototype.Are you planning to do also a version for HD600 (silver driver)? I dindn't went through technical explanations about kameleon/sennator till now but I don't get why those should be powered in order to work; I mean, kameleon was intended as a portable amp so ok, but the sennator should be a desktop one, am I right? The filter is made of full passive components (resistors, coils, diodes), why you should provide some voltage to those? I though sennator would be something like 2x rca IN -> pcb inside box -> 2x rca OUT like this:    Pics are taken from various stuff, just to give an idea of what I was talking about |
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Post by musicman on Apr 9, 2015 1:14:29 GMT
That was my understanding also. Hope it stays with the passive input box between source and Ember,otherwise, not so sure it is so desirable.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 9, 2015 5:02:48 GMT
The SeNNator was just an idea spouted in DIYAH (by Ian)
I still had filter PCB's left which could be used for this so I built one.
There will be a DIY manual which will show how to make this on the limited amount of PCB's I have left.
I could also make one for the HD600 but cannot test it. (I owned the HD580 but sold it).
The filters are active (there's LM4562 opamps in there) aside from the passive components and thus need a power supply.
No digital stuff inside, just analog.
What you guys mean is the 'add-on' module that Jeremy is going to produce.
That will be line-in and line-out (RCA) and will accept the same modules as the Kameleon can.
It is not limited to one headphone only but can be used with a lot of other headphones + can be bypassed with a switch.
Also I am working on a desktop version of the Kameleon (with volume control and RCA in) but this will take a while yet.
I will get on the schematics for it soon so Jeremy can start on it.
This device will be fed from the power supply of the amplifier so no extra power supply is needed.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 9, 2015 15:45:44 GMT
Do you got some plots of an HD600/HD650 with/without filter on a Ember that shows the differences in FR at different output resistance? (1R, 35R, 120R)? Really interested in that!  |
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z3d
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Post by z3d on Apr 9, 2015 20:55:33 GMT
The SeNNator was just an idea spouted in DIYAH (by Ian) I still had filter PCB's left which could be used for this so I built one. There will be a DIY manual which will show how to make this on the limited amount of PCB's I have left. I could also make one for the HD600 but cannot test it. (I owned the HD580 but sold it). The filters are active (there's LM4562 opamps in there) aside from the passive components and thus need a power supply. No digital stuff inside, just analog. What you guys mean is the 'add-on' module that Jeremy is going to produce. That will be line-in and line-out (RCA) and will accept the same modules as the Kameleon can. It is not limited to one headphone only but can be used with a lot of other headphones + can be bypassed with a switch. Also I am working on a desktop version of the Kameleon (with volume control and RCA in) but this will take a while yet. I will get on the schematics for it soon so Jeremy can start on it. This device will be fed from the power supply of the amplifier so no extra power supply is needed. I don't know if I can ask but would you mind to share a bit about the technical stuff behind this project (kameleon/sennator) ? Why op-amps are needed? I seriously though it was a full passive correction filter like the ones (complicated ones) used for home (car) speakers. Did you tried also to use full passive corrections before getting the final release of kameleon that you are currently sharing with us? |
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z3d
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Post by z3d on Apr 9, 2015 21:02:12 GMT
Do you got some plots of an HD600/HD650 with/without filter on a Ember that shows the differences in FR at different output resistance? (1R, 35R, 120R)? Really interested in that! +1dB in the 50-200Hz range and some little -0,3/-0,5dB here and here in 1-2kHz range and again some little +0,3/+0,5dB in the 8-20Khz frequency range going from 0Ω to 120Ω output impedance: not big differences for sure! That was with HD650 load right? What about low impedance (32-64Ω) or ultra high impedance (500-600Ω) cans? I expect the former to be more sensitive to the output impedance load than HD600/650 or higher impedance cans. Am I right? |
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 9, 2015 21:18:07 GMT
I don't know if I can ask but would you mind to share a bit about the technical stuff behind this project (kameleon/sennator) ? Why op-amps are needed? I seriously though it was a full passive correction filter like the ones (complicated ones) used for home (car) speakers. Did you tried also to use full passive corrections before getting the final release of kameleon that you are currently sharing with us? opamps are needed because the kameleon and Sennator are amplifiers. Also as soon as signals need to be boosted capacitors and op-amps are needed. A +10 dB boost in the sublows for instance would passively only be possible using very large value inductors and would reduce the mids by 10dB in level. Passive correction filters in speakers can only remove peaks or create high-, band- or lows-pass filters and not fill-in dips. The Kameleon can both remove peaks and/or fill in dips. |
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 9, 2015 21:25:35 GMT
+1dB in the 50-200Hz range and some little -0,3/-0,5dB here and here in 1-2kHz range and again some little +0,3/+0,5dB in the 8-20Khz frequency range going from 0Ω to 120Ω output impedance: not big differences for sure! That was with HD650 load right? What about low impedance (32-64Ω) or ultra high impedance (500-600Ω) cans? I expect the former to be more sensitive to the output impedance load than HD600/650 or higher impedance cans. Am I right? Yes, HD650 with new pads fitted, that's why it looks different from the other plots. The exact same headphone and amps, just different pads. It depends on the impedance plot of the headphone. Some headphones are almost like a DC resistance and others swing very high in impedance. The Superlux HD562 for instance is just like the T50RP flat as a resistor and thus won't sound tonally different (just badly attenuated which could give the impression of being less 'edgy') But with amps like the Ember for instance a higher output R can still change the sound because the amp needs to provide a higher gain/voltage and thus has more harmonic contents changing the sound. Headphones like the HD558 for instance will sound very boomy with many dB's lift in the bass where others differ less or totally not. Impedance plots from Tyll's pdf's can give a clue. The lower the impedance the bigger the potential differences in sound. Here is more in depth info |
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 10, 2015 2:40:54 GMT
Ian. Hum... The Gold Knob Award. Could be taken the wrong way over here. But I know what you mean. I forgot. Haven't you had that knob for quite some time? Where did it come from originally? Hasn't it been on more than one amp over the years? Or do you have more than one?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 10, 2015 6:47:07 GMT
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