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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 10, 2015 13:39:42 GMT
Thanks Ian. They do look nice!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 10, 2015 18:43:28 GMT
I redesigned the front panel. gave it a fake 'brushed aluminium' look (just paper covered in plastic) and removed the word 'Volume' and 'power' and hid the power indicator. There isn't a small knob nor a big knob version available in the shops near you. current proto type:  and the SeNNator with the BIG knob   I am quite sure there will be a gold knobbed SeNNator as well one of these days. The question has been asked for a HD600 version. Did some research (don't have one) and it is very similar except it has a fraction less warmth, slightly less subbass and a 'peak' around 4kHz. Getting rid of that peak seems to become the hardest part but think it may be possible. Then, of course, and also not available in any shops, the micro knob version.  When I have time I can write a short tutorial how to make a SeNNator (there is just a few PCB's left) but when the desktop Kameleon makes it's debut the SeNNator will be obsolete as that one can do the same + a fair bit more. Note when the switch is in the UP position the amp is actually off and so is the front panel LED. |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 10, 2015 19:35:51 GMT
Well I suppose the most tasteful knob's the silvery one. The black one looks positively obscene!!  Actually, the clean look without the words is very nice, Frans. You're right, mine will most likely get the gold knob!! |
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Post by riker1384 on Apr 10, 2015 21:50:25 GMT
Will the Sennator be cheaper than the Kameleon plus the HD650 filter?
Also, I asked this about the Kameleon but the new one has even more subbass boost. Are you sure that won't cause any overexcursion problems? It continues to roll off below 10Hz, right?
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Post by c61746961 on Apr 10, 2015 22:15:27 GMT
How about this: Attachments:
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Apr 11, 2015 5:47:59 GMT
The SeNNator exists (obviously) but it isn't going to be a product.
Only 2 will be made by me.
If someone wants one they would have to make it themselves and I will make a tutorial for it.
I do have some PCB's for it.
Will also include a part list for HD580/HD600.
The only actual product that will be available in the future is a desktop version of the Kameleon (it won't be called SeNNator though) and the 'add-on' for G1217 amps that can be used between a source and an amplifier.
That will also have a bypass switch.
There isn't any sonic info below 20Hz, well perhaps someone jumping on a stage if that's recorded.
At 20Hz the boost is just 2dB more.
As long as you don't play it very loud that subbass sounds great.
At VERY high levels you can hear 'ratteling'.
The extra distortion (below 100Hz) is harmonic so not that audible at normal listening levels.
You have to play uncomfortably loud (meaning within a minute you will be turning down the volume anyway) to hear problems.
The SeNNator has very limited output power (100mW, the HD650 is also rated at 100mW)
As 0.13mW is needed for 90dB this means clipping will be reached at 119dB peak (quite uncomfortable) BUT as the bass is boosted 7dB at 20Hz and assuming that is the signal with the largest amplitude 20Hz will clip at 119dB leaving 112dB peak at the rest of the FR spectrum.
Assuming a DR of 15 and a bass peak reaching clipping you will have average levels of 97dB SPL.
Something you wouldn't be able to sustain for long (nor would recommend it)
Given the fact that most people do not listen louder than 80dB on average peaks of 100dB at 20Hz could be there worst case scenario.
THD for 20Hz will increase from about 2% to 7% and above 100Hz THD will remain well below 1%.
As stated this is harmonic distortion which isn't as deteriorative to the sound as most people think.
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 11, 2015 6:37:38 GMT
I guess in the manufacture of a piece of gear, the company that make them work within very strict parameters as far as distortion figures go because there's always going to be some nutter listening at 112db or something. As long as you know the working parameters, then there's no need to worry about the numbers.
I came across a few whingers when you made the t40 filter, Frans. Figures spouted at me for levels that you'd only be able to stand for a very short period of time before you went deaf. So, meaningless figures really since for more 'normal' use, it can't be heard.
Still working in the days of sine waves for the testing of amps, I guess.
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 11, 2015 7:06:18 GMT
Ian, I really think that to many headphone amps don't have any low volume settings. There should be more options for gain. IMHO.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 11, 2015 7:18:54 GMT
I must admit Ron, the Micro options with regards to gain are superb. Turbo is ridiculously loud and could damage headphones, then there is a standard and low setting. Plus, on the low settings, another switch to take low another two levels down.
It means basically that anything can be made to work around 12 o clock. I use it on low gain for a Senn hd650 even.
It works really well.
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Post by solderdude on Apr 11, 2015 8:03:44 GMT
FiiO X3 also has a high and low gain setting (for HP out).
Fixing gain of amplifiers is always a compromise as:
A: the output voltages of sources can differ well over 10dB.
B: The efficiency of headphones differs a lot, a high sensitive IEM and HE-6 differ (0.01mW to 20mW a factor 2000 difference = 33dB).
C: The impedance of headphones ranges from 8 to 600 Ohm and thus also voltage sensitivities vary.
IEM's can produce 90dB with just 10mV the K1000 needs 2.4V (HE-6 1V) a difference of 48dB !
So for these reasons it is impossible to have a single gain IF one wants to be able to drive all headphones from all sources.
In that case 60dB difference in levels may exist from IEM to K1000 depending on the source as well.
Of course without the extremely insensitive headphones we still have a spead in 'possible' gains of well over 40dB.
So different gain options is almost essential.
Also for sensitive HP's noise levels become a big issue.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 11, 2015 8:45:00 GMT
So different gain options is almost essential.
Also for sensitive HP's noise levels become a big issue.
Definitely Frans. For me, noise is a big turn off. I'm almost obsessive about it and don't use an amp if it shows noise on lower impedance headphones. The Ifi Nano amp is a great example. Good sound but noisy with low impedance. It's almost as though Ifi have overlooked the real life user. A portable amp is most likely to be used with a low impedance headphone and the noise levels aren't great. Fine with the Senns though. But who wants to go mobile with an hd650 on their head?
The funny thing is that the noise doesn't go lower when you lower the gain. It's constant. So IMO, they've missed a trick here.
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Post by solderdude on Apr 11, 2015 10:04:35 GMT
who wants to go mobile with an hd650 on their head? Actually I do... not in the street though but on the move in the house or in the garden. It's why I made the Kameleon. It was NOT designed for sensitive headphones but rather to use headphones that need amplification in non desktop situations. Of course many portable amps can do this already so added the 'correction' feature. The funny thing is that the noise doesn't go lower when you lower the gain. It's constant. So IMO, they've missed a trick here. Most gain controls work like that though. It is rare that gain controls actually change the gain of the output circuit (amp section) which could potentially lower background noise of the amplifier. Mostly it is simply an input voltage attenuator (basically a volume control range selector). Not so in the case of the ifi micro iDSD where the maximum output voltage is limited (I have no idea whether the gain changes as well) to protect IEM s from being accidentally destroyed by too much power. I hate noise and hum as well, knowing that it is possible to not have it. |
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 11, 2015 10:54:22 GMT
Have you made a short lead for your Senns Frans? I use mine sitting in the garden, but find the lead a pain. I wrap the lead around myself if I do that. I often use the Creative Aurvana v1 straight with no amp when I'm wandering because of the lead, or the Philips, although that is less sensitive with low powered sources.
With gain, I often find the noise lessens on low gain. Preamp noise? Now you have me thinking .... Source? I'll check that.
The Micro iDSD is pretty quiet. Superbly quiet with digital input. Nano seems like a poor relation. More like a Cmoy tbh. The Fiio Mont Blanc is very good and O2 excellent with regards to noise.
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 11, 2015 19:03:10 GMT
I am quite sure there will be a gold knobbed SeNNator as well one of these days.  Knob is newly polished and ready to be fitted depending on how long the spindle is!! It'll be the poshest SeNNator in town.
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 11, 2015 22:43:03 GMT
Frans you have hit on the answer for the ultra-high end user. One amp for each headphone. Designed exclusively for that model. Of course it won't be good enough just to have a gold plated knob. The entire case would have to be gold, solid, not plated. All the elites over hear could just build an extra house to store all the equipment, and then hire a full time assist to manage the collection and be on call to bring and set-up the equipment. And of course clean the ear pads and fluff the pillows on the listening chair. |
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