solderdude
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measureutternutter
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Post by solderdude on Apr 19, 2015 11:23:57 GMT
Speaking about HD650 coupled with Ember (or Ember+filter, I don't know if you got already some prototypes of the combo), do you have some FR plots about Ember with different tubes plugged in with matched volume to compare? No, but I know Jeremy did measure a few. There is slight differences in low end and top end extension visible with some tubes. Also the harmonics spread differs somewhat. Have measured 2 extremes of tubes a while ago. ECC88 vs ECC83. I can't find the numbers that quickly but the ECC83 rolled off well within the audible band where the ECC88 would roll-off well outside the audible band. It is possible to spot out all the sonic differences between tubes from FR analysis or different measurements are required (decay, phase shifts, etc) in order to have an idea about the sound of a tube when plugged in Ember? You may see differences in FR and perhaps in phase (with some specifi extreme tubes). Maybe even see harmonic contents differences between tubes but mostly you will see the headphone itself. Like Ian touched I don't think you could measure obvious differences (in HP plots) between say ECC88, a 6DJ8 or 6N23b for instance. They will measure similar. Going back to Kameleon and SeNnator, I can send you my HD600 (new driver and new pads) for taking measurements and improve the filter design, are you interested in this proposal? I already have a filter design based on what I noticed in all the plots out there but would like to measure one in order to improve on the filter and know a bit more about the differences between HD600 and old HD650. Shipping costs will be there of course but also some assurances about the sound. |
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Jakkal
valued member
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Post by Jakkal on Apr 19, 2015 13:15:10 GMT
Btw .... I saw on HF that new Senns have a hologram on one driver. I checked on my new ones and he is correct. There is indeed a shiny square hologram on the right hand driver. Maybe to help stop fakes? Mind you, dead easy to put a square shiny piece of paper on the driver in fakes as well!! That was me, with the hologram.  I still wonder if something else changed as well and they mark that as well. |
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Rabbit
Administrator
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 19, 2015 14:07:46 GMT
I've never been aware of hd650 fakes, but then again, maybe people wouldn't know.
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z3d
quite active
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Post by z3d on Apr 22, 2015 16:42:15 GMT
Speaking about HD650 coupled with Ember (or Ember+filter, I don't know if you got already some prototypes of the combo), do you have some FR plots about Ember with different tubes plugged in with matched volume to compare? No, but I know Jeremy did measure a few. There is slight differences in low end and top end extension visible with some tubes. Also the harmonics spread differs somewhat. Have measured 2 extremes of tubes a while ago. ECC88 vs ECC83. I can't find the numbers that quickly but the ECC83 rolled off well within the audible band where the ECC88 would roll-off well outside the audible band. It is possible to spot out all the sonic differences between tubes from FR analysis or different measurements are required (decay, phase shifts, etc) in order to have an idea about the sound of a tube when plugged in Ember? You may see differences in FR and perhaps in phase (with some specifi extreme tubes). Maybe even see harmonic contents differences between tubes but mostly you will see the headphone itself. Like Ian touched I don't think you could measure obvious differences (in HP plots) between say ECC88, a 6DJ8 or 6N23b for instance. They will measure similar. Going back to Kameleon and SeNnator, I can send you my HD600 (new driver and new pads) for taking measurements and improve the filter design, are you interested in this proposal? I already have a filter design based on what I noticed in all the plots out there but would like to measure one in order to improve on the filter and know a bit more about the differences between HD600 and old HD650. Shipping costs will be there of course but also some assurances about the sound. Thank you, as always, for the detailed answer you give us Frans! About HD600 measurements and filter, you got a PM. |
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Post by c61746961 on Apr 23, 2015 18:19:03 GMT
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Rabbit
Administrator
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Post by Rabbit on May 9, 2015 10:26:45 GMT
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Post by musicman1806 on Jun 12, 2015 0:59:48 GMT
after hiatus from the HD600, i repurchased a pair a couple months ago and since the beginning I thought one driver was a tad brighter than the other. I finally measured the resistance with a basic multimeter which I guess would just be measuring the DC resistance. One driver cam in at 315 and the other at 320. I have no way of testing across the frequency spectrum but could this basic measurement point to the difference I am hearing ? I did switch the left and right drivers multiple times to confirm that its not just my ears.
Edit: the lower ohm driver is the slightly louder one.
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solderdude
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measureutternutter
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Post by solderdude on Jun 12, 2015 4:56:59 GMT
HD600 drivers are not matched in the factory.
HD650 drivers are matched in the factory.
There is always some spread between drivers.
The difference between 320 and 315 is negligible, just 0.1dB which I think is inaudible based on the resistance.
Chances are one driver is just higher in efficiency.
The HD600 I measured was pretty good in level but had different bass roll-off between L and R.
You could send it back or have it repaired by sennheiser.
If you listen to a mono signal and play with the level controls you could determine how many dB's it is off.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 21:27:11 GMT
Has anyone here ever tried 'the mod' and if so, what were your thoughts on it? The Mod |
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Post by matttcg on Jul 18, 2015 21:08:13 GMT
The hd650 still remains one of my favorite headphones after all these years. It offers an engagement factor and just plain musical fun that are very hard to match no matter how much money you spend...and believe me, I've spent plenty. This headphone scales nicely and sounds insanely good with Project Ember with a NOS tube of your choice. The hd650 never fails to deliver the music, never fails to be my warm blanket hp, and after all the years I've owned it it still finds ways to surprise and impress me. One of the best buys in the game IMO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 21:27:04 GMT
The hd650 still remains one of my favorite headphones after all these years. It offers an engagement factor and just plain musical fun that are very hard to match no matter how much money you spend...and believe me, I've spent plenty. This headphone scales nicely and sounds insanely good with Project Ember with a NOS tube of your choice. The hd650 never fails to deliver the music, never fails to be my warm blanket hp, and after all the years I've owned it it still finds ways to surprise and impress me. One of the best buys in the game IMO. For those of us too poor to afford anything further up the ladder that's good to know. You're right though, I really can't fault it. Having said that Garage 1217 are working on a filter for the 650 that I'm really looking forward to hearing. |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 18, 2015 22:39:43 GMT
It goes right up with the best in terms of sound with the filter, Gordon. Only negative is bass distortion figures at high volume. More theoretical than anything thogh really. I wonder whether Senn rolled the lower bass away in order to avoid paper/graph people who might criticise based on what they see rather than hear.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 13:53:36 GMT
Can (will) this bass distortion be heard?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 19, 2015 13:58:39 GMT
No, not at lower/normal volumes but if pushed hard it might show up. Frans will describe more accurately what happens.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 14:09:23 GMT
That's good to know. I don't listen particularly loudly anyway.
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