Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 22, 2015 16:04:02 GMT
Keith Emerson is 70 now. ELP are to release a big box set of concerts in South America where they have selected numbers from their past, but I have to be honest, Keith isn't always in great form on it. I remember him as a really 'tight' keyboard player who played at one time with such great precision. This album shows him fumbling about on occasion which is a great pity. He does have a more recent release called 'Three Fates' with Marc Bonilla and the Munchner Rundfunkorchesta. I don't think ELP will ever perform again. Greg Lake and Carl Palmer aren't keen. They last played as a band in 2010 but they're not really too happy to work together any more. those early days of excess have gone, where ELP were so hilarious in their antics on stage as well as their precision playing. I remember seeing Keith beating up his Moog synthesiser and rocking it back and forth in the middle of a 'freeform' screech and even stabbing the keys with knives, holding the keys down!!! Scary!!! Good job it was just an act.
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Post by hifidez on Apr 22, 2015 19:34:19 GMT
I remember seeing Keith beating up his Moog synthesiser and rocking it back and forth in the middle of a 'freeform' screech and even stabbing the keys with knives, holding the keys down!!! Scary!!! Good job it was just an act. I remember seeing those antics at the Southampton Guildhall - at the time I was thinking he knew just where to place the daggers without damaging the synth. Derek
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 22, 2015 20:55:58 GMT
I think he did Derek. A great showman.
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 23, 2015 3:33:28 GMT
I saw them over here many years ago. I looked it up. 1977. My memory is of these young guys in a band, making incredibly tight music. 70? How did that happen so quickly? I was heavily into Yes during that time period, actually early 1970's forward. Great "shows" not just concerts.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 23, 2015 5:27:20 GMT
Well Rick Wakeman now does appearances almost as a comic figure on early evening newsy/chat shows. His son plays keyboards as well but I don't think he's as good as his Dad when he was playing. Another great one was poor Jon Lord from Deep Purple. i always found Deeo Purple a bit of a struggle to get into. I'm not sure why. it might be because their music sounded very American rock like to me. I liked Jon Lord's playing a lot though. His technique on the Hammond was fantastic and I always loved his curious 'Concerto for Rock Group and Orchestra'. Instead of trying to get the two sounds to blend, he kind of set them against each other since they're such a long way apart in terms of tyle and sound. Jon Lord used to publish keybpard pieces in rock magazines. It was notated and very interesting to play and learn about the style that he developed. I used to use them with aspiring 'rock' pupils. You know, people who want to be rock stars but need to be taught how to do it!! Jon catered for them in his pieces.. I think Keith Emerson has gone off the boil. In this box set, there are recordings from concerts in the 90's and his playing is really uneven at the best of times. In some pieces, you get the feeling he's fudging his way through and the pieces that he once could play backwards on his head are now impossible for him. In some places, you just think that he's going to make a real mess. He gets close. What I don't understand is why they're releasing it. It doesn't show them at their best because of Keith Emerson. The group relies very heavily on the keyboard player and he's really struggling. Good memories from the pieces but disappointing performances. I think it's four cd's as well. The other two are fine. Greg Lake performed perfectly well on bass and Carl Palmer is ok on drums. It's the keyboard that is disjointed and sounds like he's kind of out of his depth. Mind you, they did always perform on the edge of their technique in the early days. Naughty boy didn't practise did he?
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 23, 2015 6:24:28 GMT
What I remember most of Deep was Deep Made in Japan. Just kind of chaos at times. Then we saw them at the Cow Place in SF with record setting dB levels. Glad we had ear plugs. Still at there peak musically but kind of went mad that night. I really thought Jon Lord was going to smash his Hammond that night. But what at great night. Sad but the ELP release is about money,
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 23, 2015 7:25:08 GMT
Sad but the ELP release is about money, Well, it's interesting that Keith has actually said that he wants to retire. The idea of a musician retiring is quite funny since it's often not regarded as a 'job' but he does want out, so you're probably right in that it's a way of getting a last grab from old die hard fans since it's mostly the same old stuff .... Even there twice on the album at different venues. I can't imagine why anyone would want two versions of Tarkus or Pictures at an Exhibition, played badly at two venues in the same box set. Yes, it's probably a little boost to the pension.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 23, 2015 16:02:29 GMT
I'm just listening to his last venture and tbh, it's a bit disappointing too. Orchestral versions of past stuff including Tarkus. That's interesting I suppose but seems insipid really. Shame he didn't do a new album and actually play more on it!!
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 23, 2015 21:11:25 GMT
I'm just listening to his last venture and tbh, it's a bit disappointing too. Orchestral versions of past stuff including Tarkus. That's interesting I suppose but seems insipid really. Shame he didn't do a new album and actually play more on it!! Sad when you have a heard a musician or band at their peak, and they loose their chops. Perhaps from lack of playing? Some of the great violinists played until their 90's. It seemed they where always on tour somewhere. I think if you are going to play at an ELP level you have to keep going. You would know far more than I Ian.
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 24, 2015 5:22:56 GMT
They always played on the edge of their technique Ron, so yes, there is a danger that tou let something slip slightly and it soon goes. In Emerson's case, there are places in his own playing where you wonder whether it's the same guy.
Interestingly, the orchestral album he last produced shows an or hestra playing ELP stuff really accurately and cleanly but it does lose it's power as a result. It doesn't even verge on going out of comtrol so perhaps that's where ELP sounded so exciting .... They actually were on the verge (on occasions) of going out of kilter. I remember some dodgy moments live with Emerson in particular but now, it seems to really have gone and he struggles to be the player he once was.
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 24, 2015 10:47:48 GMT
They always played on the edge of their technique Ron, so yes, there is a danger that tou let something slip slightly and it soon goes. In Emerson's case, there are places in his own playing where you wonder whether it's the same guy. Interestingly, the orchestral album he last produced shows an or hestra playing ELP stuff really accurately and cleanly but it does lose it's power as a result. It doesn't even verge on going out of comtrol so perhaps that's where ELP sounded so exciting .... They actually were on the verge (on occasions) of going out of kilter. I remember some dodgy moments live with Emerson in particular but now, it seems to really have gone and he struggles to be the player he once was. Interesting comment "verge of going out of kilter". That's a good description of the night I saw Deep Purple. Sometimes I felt they where about to "head off a cliff", then they would pull If it back just in time and it would be amazing. And you would think how did they do that? My big unanswered question has been, why was Yes always better in concert than on the albums? The albums seem sterile. Too precise. The live versions where exciting and yet well played. I never felt they were going out of control.
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 24, 2015 11:16:13 GMT
To me, YES albums were a bit squeaky clean and perfect in their presentation. The only one I really went for big time is the first one. That seemed quite gritty. Nowadays, I appreciate their music more on album but I also noticed that it was more rough edged (Close to the Edge ) when live. Perhaps being very educated chaps, they focused much more on accuracy in the studio since it was being recorded for posterity. I kid you not!! Sometimes, even bands like to record a 'perfect' version which is often sacrificed in live situations where they go off at tangents and take more chances than they would in a studio. You can also get very 'cold' type engineers in a studio that would never heat up if you stuck a red hot poker up their a****. Some have very fixed views as to what a recording should sound like and I think we sometimes don't like what we near as a reault of these interfering know alls!! It's quite funny listening to the Led Zep albums on hi res. Very revealing of some major flaws in the recording. Levels of distortion on individual tracks can be quite disconcerting, plus John's squeaky bass drum pedal that no one seems to notice. Also compression levels adjusted on each track and perhaps a bit too much on some. Levels of hiss are also a bit weird as well sometimes. Yet it all got through quality control fine. Hearing them live was also a different experience to the records.
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 24, 2015 18:55:55 GMT
Hi Ian, Not sure if you have seen this, but it might help explain some of what you are hearing. A lot of knob twiddling going on during mixing! On Led Zep II. I doubt once levels where set on Yes recordings they moved at all. linkI have book, hard to find called Recording the Beatles, or something like that. In it they talk about the early days when the recording engineers wore white lab coats. Mic distances and levels came from a big EMI master book and if you were caught deviating you would be docked pay. No one was allowed to touch the recording equipment except these guys. So around Revolver they would wait until they left, move the mics and re-set the levels and record. When they were done they put everything back and the lab coat guys would come and tear it down. One day they came in and Ringo's bass drum mic diaphragm had blown. There was an investigation launched and it was concluded that it had been equipment failure! At some point they got caught and they all got called on the carpet by the head of EMI. Basically told they were being naughty boys, but since they were making the company so much money they could continue, but were told to stop breaking things. And that they still couldn't touch the equipment. Union rules and all.
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Post by Rabbit on Apr 24, 2015 19:02:24 GMT
Aha .. That will indeed account for it.
The hi res version that I have, shows production faults all over the place. It's the real tiny subtleties that these tracks show I think, more than anything to do with frequency response. I think our hi res files are working way above the specs of the time so we become much more aware of recording problems.
I'm finding that quite a lot. It's fascinating to hear.
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Post by ronzo56 on Apr 24, 2015 19:26:10 GMT
Aha .. That will indeed account for it. The hi res version that I have, shows production faults all over the place. It's the real tiny subtleties that these tracks show I think, more than anything to do with frequency response. I think our hi res files are working way above the specs of the time so we become much more aware of recording problems. I'm finding that quite a lot. It's fascinating to hear. Yes it is. But have we gone too far as the enjoyment of the music? I, like you, enjoy listening to the recording techniques. It's cool to hear the things they were trying out, and hear things that got literally glued together during mastering. But for musical enjoyment ,at least to me, it seems that 24/44.1 does the best job of conveying the music without turning your gear into a microscope. Mostly true of 1960's early 70's. I have Cat Stevens Tea for the Tillerman in hi-rez. Excellent. Definatlely no knob twisting.
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