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Post by techboy on May 16, 2016 15:27:26 GMT
Sonarworks has a 0.0 db volume change once you use the Calibrate option. And it can be proven through common sense going through the evidence in the above posts. The volume change through Sonarworks is mitigated when you start using the Calibrate button to mute it. So it is a mute point. It is unlikely that a hardware filter will have a 0.0 db volume change. However, Frans should be able to confirm this. And you don't know how to use SW You are not supposed to switch it on/off to toggle it. You're only supposed to toggle the Calibrate button. Once you enable it, it reduced the volume by around 8 db. But then you're not supposed to switch SW off to AB test. Just press the Calibrate button and it goes off without a volume change. You're welcome! And the difference is subtle but profound. Other posters including I, can no longer listen to the HD 650 without SW. But the effect is a subtle variation that results in all the difference.
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Post by techboy on May 16, 2016 15:30:41 GMT
As I said to Frans at the time in the case of the HD650 the changes are subtle but profound. You notice them more when you revert back than when you apply the filter. Exactly what I said. ABing in a few seconds makes you believe of a very small difference. But if you listen for a few hours and then try to go back, you hate it! Aakshey
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Post by techboy on May 16, 2016 16:24:41 GMT
Sorry for my rude tone and language.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 16, 2016 17:56:42 GMT
Sorry for my rude tone and language. Yes, but why?
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Post by techboy on May 16, 2016 20:25:43 GMT
I was rude I felt.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 16, 2016 20:33:19 GMT
I meant why were you being rude? No need.
This ain't HF you know!!!
The 'edit' button is easily accessed.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on May 16, 2016 20:47:13 GMT
Or perhaps the filter just works as intended??? I found that when I demo'd SW there was a far greater change in volume than 0.2 dB that's for sure! Which based on my limited knowledge of software EQ would make sense as I think you EQ down to avoid 'destructive' EQ'ing? Just to flip this on its head as you seem to be casting doubt on the filter Simon is using....you could of course apply the same logic to your experiences with SW and say what you are hearing is placebo caused by the shift in volume or delay (it's there even if it's a split second)? Having used a couple of Frans' filters I would say they are very effective indeed. Depending on the headphones used the changes can be very subtle (HD650) or very apparent (DT990) but go back to listening to either unfiltered, irrespective of volume, and there is no doubt that the FR has been changed. As I said to Frans at the time in the case of the HD650 the changes are subtle but profound. You notice them more when you revert back than when you apply the filter. It's funny because unfiltered the HD650 and DT990 sound absolutely nothing alike but filtered they sound really rather similar in many respects although their underlying 'character' remains. To my ears both methods work as intended although I prefer the hardware approach myself. --- Simon, with regard to the LCD 2 does SW have a plug-in specifically for your revision? I'm wondering if their plug was perhaps for a different one (Fazor?) that was closer to their 'target' so needed less correcting? I hear a lot of talk (complaints mainly) from folk who say the Fazor sounds nothing like the non-Fazor versions. mine are rev2 non fazor , Mark.
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jello
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Post by jello on May 16, 2016 20:48:45 GMT
Sonarworks has a 0.0 db volume change once you use the Calibrate option. And it can be proven through common sense going through the evidence in the above posts. The volume change through Sonarworks is mitigated when you start using the Calibrate button to mute it. So it is a mute point. It is unlikely that a hardware filter will have a 0.0 db volume change. However, Frans should be able to confirm this. And you don't know how to use SW You are not supposed to switch it on/off to toggle it. You're only supposed to toggle the Calibrate button. Once you enable it, it reduced the volume by around 8 db. But then you're not supposed to switch SW off to AB test. Just press the Calibrate button and it goes off without a volume change. You're welcome! And the difference is subtle but profound. Other posters including I, can no longer listen to the HD 650 without SW. But the effect is a subtle variation that results in all the difference. Bit condescending there. If I was so inclined I could lob a few rocks your way in retaliation but it's honestly not worth getting in to a ****ing contest with you. What I took issue with is the fact that when Simon says he hears a noticeable difference with the LCD 2 filter you automatically jump to the conclusion that it's not the filter he's hearing. Must be placebo, must be volume, must be a delay, must be his ears. If he hears no difference when he uses SW it must be working as intended. You also pinched my subtle but profound comment. However, you conveniently ignore the fact I also said that in the case of the DT990 the changes were anything but subtle. Who is to say that the LCD2 doesn't fall into the category - certainly to me it looks like it'd need a bit of work to get it flat.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 16, 2016 20:53:38 GMT
He's writing a new book .... 'How to Make Friends and Hold On to Them'. (A beginner's guide to tact)
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jello
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Post by jello on May 16, 2016 20:56:14 GMT
mine are rev2 non fazor , Mark.[/quote] Ah, okay. I only briefly used SW but I seem to recall that when you are using the plug-in you see the 'unadulterated' FR curve and the 'corrected' one. Does there look to be much deviation between the two or very slight tweaks?
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oldson
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Post by oldson on May 16, 2016 20:57:32 GMT
i stand by what i have said. with hardware filter, no noticeable volume increase, no placebo. IT JUST WORKS!!!!!!!
i will continue to play around with sw. maybe if i sent them the fr curve for my headphone they could suggest a custom setting for it? as Mark said, their preset "flat" settings are average for the model and maybe not my revision.
btw, Techboy, i had not taken any offence at any of your comments at all, so dont worry.
the sq difference i hear when ticking or unticking the ref3 plugin within jriver dsp is just volume change then? if so it had me fooled.
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jello
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Post by jello on May 16, 2016 21:14:21 GMT
He's writing a new book .... 'How to Make Friends and Hold On to Them'. (A beginner's guide to tact) It's okay Ian. We were both equally guilty tbh. We've done the mature thing and exchanged apologies via PM. Sorry for the thread derailment. This PHT is a nightmare
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 16, 2016 21:30:58 GMT
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jello
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Post by jello on May 16, 2016 22:15:07 GMT
i will continue to play around with sw. maybe if i sent them the fr curve for my headphone they could suggest a custom setting for it? as Mark said, their preset "flat" settings are average for the model and maybe not my revision. it's possible the SW profile was based on measurements for this pairIf you have the fr curve for yours then there's no harm in asking for some help with settings. Worst they can say is no.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on May 18, 2016 17:11:01 GMT
not sure if i can be bothered tbh. sw only really is any use to me with the hd650, as i have no filter for that. my lcd2s are a class act with the hardware filter and it was only a curiosity thing that made me try sw with them.
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