howie
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Post by howie on Mar 27, 2016 4:02:26 GMT
You have a very versatile amplifier and The DT990 pairs very well with a large variety of tubes and opamps in Starlight. Sure the DT990 has an inherent V shaped sound signature, but both ends can be enhanced or attenuated by the many tweaks that Starlight offers, both with tubes and opamps. I find it very easy to tweak the treble to my liking depending on the recording. Are you using Starlight and DT990 currently? If so, do you have any experiences or observations you can share regarding that combination? Yes, but it's only one of several combinations I currently use according to what I am listening to and the whim of the moment. I only listen to Classical, mainly from CD, and vary the tube according to the recording. I changed the original opamp to an opa 2227 as I prefer a cooler sound but the op amp provided gives a warm, more holographic sound which you may prefer. I don't think you will be able to directly transfer my own experiences to your personal preference in sound because of differences in music and kit. All I can confirm is the combination works very nicely to my ears and I find the DT990 very comfortable too. Incidentally, low volume listening is a delight with the DT990, as the V shape keeps the bass well expressed right down to the limits of audibility for my ears. I always purchase headphones from a seller who offers returns, though I don't know if that's possible where you live.
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Post by marveltone on Mar 27, 2016 5:09:05 GMT
I realize your experiences will differ from mine, as will your kit, but I'm gathering information the only way possible for my circumstances, so your input is very much appreciated and highly valued.
As far as purchasing equipment goes, nothing exists where I live (as per the title of the thread) so I buy through Amazon, who have always had excellent return policies.
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howie
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Post by howie on Mar 27, 2016 7:06:08 GMT
Me too, I'm sure their return policy is one reason Amazon is so popular. I rarely purchase from stores as I find salesmen in the UK to generally be very pushy and hang around you as you are trying to listen. Also, most of my listening is on my home system rather than on the move and I can't reproduce my home sound in a store anyway.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 27, 2016 7:20:23 GMT
Howard is right, the sound sig of the dt990 works at low volume well. It's probably more likely that you'll like its sound sig too. For the cost, it's a really good headphone.
I think all of the Fostex use the same driver. I can't really work oit differences between 20 and 50. The t20 isn't so readily available here.
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Post by marveltone on Mar 27, 2016 13:42:41 GMT
Ian, since I have time to contemplate my navel, let me ask a hypothetical question. If you had to choose between the DT990 and the modded T50RP MK3 to do all your listening, (yes, the same phone for rock, jazz, classical, folk) which would you choose?
FWIW, I even had a fleeting thought of the HiFiMan HE400S, but it's on the upper end of what I'm willing to spend, and for that kind of money, I don't like all that plastic. Looks too delicate.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 27, 2016 14:11:14 GMT
I was thinking about that this morning and you know, I find that hard to choose.
For a none hifi person, the DT990 would really appeal. Big bass. Strong treble. Plenty of weight and punch.
The T50 once adjusted is a headphone that sounds quite 'ordinary' by comparison. It's not as colourful in terms of sound so may well be perceived as a 'dull' or 'boring' headphone. It takes more extended listening to get what jt does well. The HD650 is often similar in this respect for many people. They find it lacks 'sparkle'.
The more polished headphone as far as looks goes is the DT990 and is more enjoyable on the face of it.
I tend to listen to the Beyer at lower volume because of the top, where the T50 just grows bigger with no real harshness.
There is something about planars and the way that they reproduce bass which is a little different as well. I think it's delivered 'cleaner' than a dynamic cone.
I'd say that the DT990 is very musical and the T50 is more a tweaker's/enthusiast headphone. The DT990 is fine as it is, so I guess I'd recommend that. Certainly at the price.
Biggest problem for me is that I have so many to choose from that I don't mind just flitting between them. So one sound is neither here nor there to me. It's the people who keep just one that I find difficult to advise because you are in effect, stuck with that one sound which plants itself on everything that you listen to.
Every headphone (including expensive ones like my th900) have their quirks and problems. Once you recognise them, they never go away but if something sounds 'off' to me, I switch to another headphone.
The problems of each ...
Beyer
Strong treble. Slightly overdone bass. Can be harsh with some recordings.
T50
Could be perceived as boring. Needs modding which adds to cost. Ugly. Standard pads are not nice. Standard is a bit peaky in treble with lack of lower bass.
Good points .....
Beyer
Good stage. Entertaining with most stuff. Good bass punch. Comfy as hell.
T50
Dead easy to modify. Clean bass delivery of planars. Once modded, nice balance. Stage really isn't bad when modded either. (Actually, come to think of it, planars really place sounds well in the stereo field tbh)
I'm not sure I'd use a standard T50 as my only headphone, but modded, I think I could. Reason being that tonally, it sounds pretty much in the right place to me whereas the Beyer sounds more boosted in the extremes, (particularly treble) so loud brass can really scream at you but with the T50, they have a little more body of sound.
I have a feeling that you will prefer the Beyer though.
Get both?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 27, 2016 14:34:07 GMT
Joe, I just did a quick switch between hd650, T50 and DT990.
That shows just how good the T50 is I'm afraid. I think it's the one I'd live with if I had no choice of anything else. The only other one would be the Senn, but with a Kameleon filter.
I purposely used an aggressive Michael Jackson recording of 'Bad' so lots of extreme info there with vocals in the middle.
On T50, I felt deep bass was absent. Smooth
Hd650 - exactly the same as far as deep bass goes. It's not there. Slightly more diffuse but actually the T50 sounds more focused.
DT990 - again, lacking the bass so it IS the recording but worse, because of the treble lift, it sounds thinner and as I usually do, I have to turn it down.
The T50 can play this track loud so it gains a lot of punch where the DT990 goes harsh before it gets anything like the same kick. T50 is closer to the hd650 sound in terms of the treble quality but more 'enclosed' or 'focused' sounding.
My own feeling is that the T50 is better but again, that might be my own preference coming in here. The bass is delivered more cleanly and because the lack of glare allows you to turn up, it kicks where the DT990 would start to become glary.
I also tried the Grado sr60i on the same track. It can't compete with either the dt990 or the T50. Treble is comparatively coarse and it is incredibly harsh at higher volumes. It's just nowhere near both at high volumes.
I've also noticed that the way that I have my bass levels adjusted on the T50 is on the same level as the dt990 but it hits harder on the T50. The DT990 is comparatively lighter in weight, but not quantity. (If that makes sense) the T50 sound is more 'focused' so the bass carries weight. The treble of each is very different as well though. DT990 is more prominent for sure and stops higher volumes being possible.
Low volume and the dt990 is fine. Higher volume and the T50 takes over with ease. Then you realise that the T50 does more than you think at first, even at lower volume. It just sounds a little more 'ordinary' at low volume. At high, it hits with ease.
I was going from digital file in x5 to an Ifi Idsd amp which has a lot of power. Too much really for the Grado. I'd be happy with DT990 or T50, but going by cost, DT990 is best buy probably. Don't forget the pads for the T50 and a little bit of tweaking.
My preference is
T50 DT990 Grado sr60i
I think I could live with just the T50 tbh. You've made me think more carefully about it; especially after my tweaking of the T50. There are some headphones that change what you feel are your priorities in a headphone.
The 'changers' for me were the hd650, the th900 and the T40 and 50. All with different sounds; especially with regards to treble presentation but the arrival of the Nighthawk made me really rethink what I have often found difficult in headphones - how treble is reproduced. The Nighthawk is one of the darkest I've heard, but turning up the volume made it bloom in a different way to anything else that I have ever had, which got me thinking more about getting the treble levels right is very important to how we perceive the bass response.
Very often, the problems are (I think) in the treble but we play around with the bass to kind of balance with the top end. Moving the volume alters how we hear bass quite a lot, so taking the treble down and turning the volume up makes the frequency response of a headphone take a different 'tilt'.
That works very much so with the T50 and my guess is that tweaks that people prefer will also depend on the volumes that they like to listen at. I found that by boosting the bass too much killed all sense of treble. I hadn't touched the treble by what I had done, so it is really this sense of balance between the top and bottom that is crucial.
The DT990 has an upward tilt to its perceived sound where the T50 seems more even.
Really difficult to recommend headphones!!!
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Post by marveltone on Mar 27, 2016 19:40:57 GMT
For what it's worth, I'm not afraid to mod things. I built this all tube guitar amp and speaker from scratch. All I had was a schematic and parts layout. I then modded it from there to meet my particular needs. It's absolutely the only one of its kind. The Fostex doesn't scare me, if that's your concern. In fact, it's starting to sound like a lot of fun.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 27, 2016 21:27:53 GMT
I must admit, I do feel a sense of achievement hearing it now up against the others. Because I'm involved with the modding, it's easy to become blind to the negatives. I am being a little negative in my approach though since I'm actively looking for difficult areas in its sound while doing some prolonged listening.
I got a very pleasant surprise today doing head to heads with some of my other headphones and kind of made me feel a lot better about the T50. I'm starting to actually feel convinced that it's a damned good headphone whereas up until now, I've been cautious about it. I'm becoming more convinced with extended listening just how good it is actually.
I stuck with the stock configuration for quite a while in order to learn its sound and did little mods with further listening, so I kind of learned its sound before implementing the next thing.
I feel that I've hit a really good place with it now and the joke is, the mods are simplicity.
Going to my T40, hd650, dt990, DT150, sr60i straight from the T50 and back again has shown just how good they are tbh.
At one point, I felt that the bass was missing, only to find that all of the others did the same, so it was the recording!! In fact bass level is close to DT990 with 4 ports shut with a strong sense of authority, so it might be a bit high for some.
The learning process was good for me too. Hearing an overdamped bass and playing around with the ports has shown me how much a balancing process the shifting of air inside the cups is. I played around with every configuration and three sets of pads.
The alcantara pads are the key both to sound and comfort though. Best I've had. Expensive but worth it. It makes them both sound and feel luxurious.
My biggest concern with all people who want to buy and use just one headphone is whether my tastes in sound are similar. You can never guarantee that we all hear the same way and single headphone owners only get one shot.
I'll say one thing, the Grado sr60i sounds quite awful alongside it.
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Post by marveltone on Mar 27, 2016 23:31:09 GMT
But that's the beauty of mods. If your particular mod doesn't fit my particular taste, it's just a matter of tweaking it until it fits my perceived sound profile. I think, in a way, it's the perfect diamond in the rough. It might not seem too special out of the box, but it has the inherent ability to become very personal to anyone willing to put a little effort into it.
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Post by marveltone on Mar 28, 2016 2:09:23 GMT
On a completely unrelated topic, I just got finished doing a teensy bit of work on a couple instruments for an acquaintance. She asked what she owed me, and I said Nothing, I didn't really do that much. She proceeded to give me this sweet little mountain dulcimer for my trouble. I'll pull the old strings off, clean up the frets and fret-board a bit, and give it a new set of strings. Now I get to learn another instrument! YAY!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 28, 2016 8:26:06 GMT
You know, years ago, I was given an old guitar which I stripped and took all the varnish off in order to recoat it. Also scrubbed up the fret board. After revarnishing and reassembling, the sound became really resonant. There must have been a lot of dirt right down in the grain of the wood and getting it out made the guitar 'sing' better.
I presume that you play 'country' music? Must be difficult to find an audience out there!!
I was educated in orchestral performance but ended up in pop because years back, I lost half of my right hand ring finger. An attempt was made to rebuild it which took 2 or 3 years by which time, it was difficult for me to go back into the exacting nature of orchestral playing. I studied oboe, piano and composition at the Royal College of Music in London. So I went into the wonderful world of vocals and synths before becoming too old for that kind of thing really and did all kinds of things. Anything that paid really!!! (What a tart!!)
I used to make all of my oboe reeds and when I lost my finger, I tried to have the oboe adapted so I could play properly again, but unfortunately, it was never going to be good enough (as far as I was concerned) to play pro on it again. So a change of career into more popular stuff which actually paid off well financially tbh.
That'll teach me not to ride motorbikes.
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Post by marveltone on Mar 28, 2016 9:10:29 GMT
I pretty much abhor country music, but adore folk music. Funny, eh? I was classically trained in vocal music, but self taught in guitar. My wife and I play American, Canadian and Celtic folk music (she sings and plays pennywhistle). We primarily sit and play in the screened porch to the chickens, dogs and occasionally the odd timber wolf, although at a considerable distance! We get the occasional gig at a coffee shop, County fair or other community event, and occasionally at church.
Mostly just having fun.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 28, 2016 9:42:39 GMT
That's the best way with music. You can't always be playing what you actually like if you're a performer!!
I like folk/rock type stuff quite a lot. I've seen and met the members of Fairport Convention quite a lot of the years and love their stuff. Also Jethro Tull, or Ian Anderson. Blackbeard's Tea Party are a riot as well as The Imagined Village with Eliza Carthy, Bellowhead, Damien O'Kane, The Albion Band (again, who I've seen and met on various occasions), but Country and Western is a big turn off for me. Can't stand the cowboy/cowgirl stuff.
There's also a Swedish (I think they are) group called Swap that I like a lot.
Of course, when I was a student in the 70s, Elgar, Vaughan Williams and Holst were almost compulsory for listening to and performing at the college. I was nearly thrown out twice for playing rock music and had to be told off by the Principal for it!! He was bety posh ... Sir Keith Faulkner and the second time was Sir David Willcox who actually laughed it off thank goodness. My oboe teacher at the time was a guy called Sidney Sutcliffe who played for the Royal Philharmonia or Philharmonic (can't remember) and he ribbed me about it for a year in my lessons, while quietly giving me pro jobs to dep for him in, which was against the rukes in those days. Students weren't allowed to play for money for some reason.
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Post by marveltone on Apr 6, 2016 1:16:52 GMT
Seeing as I seem to enjoy agonizing myself over these silly things, (my wife looks up from across the room and yells, "NERD!") I was reading more of Solderdude's blog regarding the DT990 and discovered this little gem:
"The usage of felt in front of the driver can often help with removing sibilance and sharp treble. 3 mm thick wool-felt is most effective in the 4kHz to 13kHz area. For this headphone this is also the case. A 3mm felt disc, that replaces the foam driver protection, lowers the treble in the sibilance area (5kHz – 10kHz) by a good 5dB. It also seems to apply some extra damping for the lows as the bass extends slightly lower and the peak around 150Hz is lowered by 1dB. Below stock (left driver) and with 3mm wool-felt in front of the driver. The headphone still sounds bassy and detailed but is less ‘shrill’ and will possibly be less fatiguing."
Of course! Beyer makes these things with easily replaceable parts, so they should be easy to mod to a certain extent. The felt can tame the treble beast, which means, in theory, they can be payed louder and allow the bass to really shine. Keep the bass and the big, open sound stage, tame the highs, and we could have a potential winner.
Beyer, Fostex, Beyer, Fostex... I could do this forever... or at least until the building season ramps up and I start getting decent paychecks again.
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