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Post by marveltone on Mar 25, 2016 23:23:33 GMT
Finally coming back after a bit of a drought. We live a ways from a small town with 20 miles separating us from the wireless internet tower. Sometimes we get signal, sometimes not. We finally had our ISP put up a bigger antenna, so we'll see how that works.
Be that as it may, I'm starting to think about upgrading cans. My Grado SR80s have been fine for classic rock and blues, but just aren't up to the task of the lush, orchestral passages in many of Alan Parsons albums, Moody Blues aren't quite moody enough, and Bruce Hornsby's "Harbour Lights" album has nowhere near the slam it should have in the bass passages. Been looking at DT880/990, Momentum 2.0, and possibly Q701 or 7XX. Keep in mind, I'm listening through Starlight.
I've been reading forums, blogs, online magazine reviews, etc, hoping to be able to make a fairly informed decision for an online purchase. Why online? The closest stereo shop is at least 130 miles away. To find another one for comparative shipping, I have to go another 70 miles. This makes a 400 mile round trip! Just not very convenient, or a good option when my truck gets 18mpg on the highway.
Basically, it boils down to this: I live out in the sticks, I love good sound, and I plan on an upgrade sometime this summer or fall, once I get ahead financially. (Just spent $10,000 on a new diesel engine!) I value the opinions and technical postings on this forum above all the others, as you all tend to rise above the snake oil and unobtainium, and focus on what works.
So, at some point, if I ask how a set of cans sound and you suggest I find a shop and audition some, you'll forgive me if I say I really can't. I know we all perceive things differently, but I get a good feeling from this group and I value your input.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 25, 2016 23:48:06 GMT
That's nice of you to say about the forum. Many thanks.
It all depends on what kind of sound you like tbh.
If you like the Grado sound, then you're enjoying a very clear and open top end.
All of the headphones, except the Momentum have a raised top end, so it kind of comes down to how much bass weight you would like.
The DT880 is pretty accurate but some find it a little 'unmusical' and more 'analytical'. Bass is a little light for some but it is a very good headphone if you enjoy a strong top end.
Same goes for the AKG headphone, although I personally find the AKG treble to be kind of plastic sounding.
Those two emphasise the top more and imo, the Beyer has the edge.
The DT990 is a great buy. It has more of a v shape on its frequency response and is more of a fun listen. It's not as analytical as the DT880 but has a bigger bass which kind of balances with the treble.
The Momentum is a portable headphone and I wouldn't consider it for home use myself. It's a great portable headphone though.
One to consider is the Sennheiser HD650 or if you like a lighter sound, the hd600. Both excellent but have a very smooth treble. Nothing like a Grado treble, but both are incredibly able headphones.
Buying 'blind' is a risky business though, since you are relying on other peoples' tastes. Be careful!!
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Post by marveltone on Mar 26, 2016 0:46:14 GMT
Yes, blind is risky, but as you can see, I'm at a bit of a disadvantage, geographically speaking. To answer a couple more lingering questions, I'm a musician. I sing and play guitar (electric and acoustic), and Irish bouzouki, so I know what music should sound like. I like huge dynamic range and an expansive sound stage, which is why I usually tend to like open back headphones, although occasionally a closed will surprise me.
As far as the Grados go, They're not bad (not that I have much to compare them to), but the mids and bottom end are too thin for strings, IMO. I'm looking for a more full and solid bottom end without getting boomy... Something that will actually hit that bottom octave that the Grados never reach. The upper end could also use some smoothing out a bit. I'm sure you know all about the Grado grattle. It's fine for rock, but once the more classical elements, like strings, are thown in, they come across as thin and lifeless. I like treble, but I like it a bit smoother than what the Grados produce.
My ultimate test albums for the type of music I like the best are Alan Parsons Project "Gaudi" (this is where Grado just falls flat.), Bruce Hornsby "Harbour Lights", and Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms", although I like a wide selection of styles, so versatility is a bonus. In that sense, almost anything beats the Grados, as I see them as primarily rock phones.
I'm currently leaning toward the DT880/990, as I really like the price , and they can probably be tweaked enough with some prudent equalization.
Also, I'm in no hurry.
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Post by hifidez on Mar 26, 2016 8:20:39 GMT
Been through the same process here; needed a change and upgrade from my SR60 and SR80 (preferred the 60s actually).
Plumped for Oppo PL-3 because they are ultra smooth at the top and have a very extended bass. Upper bass / lower mid can come over as a tad rich but I have adjusted to that.
They are happy enough on a phone/tablet but really perform an a dedicated amp. Using mine with MF V-DACii, Benchmark DAC2 and Cambridge DacMagic XS. The Oppos really do perform. IF your are ok with a closed-back design.
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Post by hifidez on Mar 26, 2016 8:26:22 GMT
Sorry, the Oppos may too expensive. You didnt mention budget directly and I've just checked the Dt 990 price. Hope my recommendation wasn't totally without interest.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 26, 2016 8:36:43 GMT
You got me going on that one Derek!!'
Joe, the DT880 and 990 both have a strong top end. Biggest difference is in the bass. DT880 isn't as fat sounding as the DT990 which has quite a hump in the mid bass but is very enjoyable. The 990 is a really good buy.
The Senn HD600 is a flatter version of the HD650. Both are excellent. Some prefer the slightly bigger bass of the 650 while others prefer the neutrality of the 600. I've seen a few pros using the hd650 to monitor recording playback as 'consumers' might hear. Both are really worth consideration as long as you don't want a portable headphone.
The Oppo that Derek has mentioned is also excellent. It's always hard with headphones. I have so many of them and there aren't many that I would use exclusively.
In studios, I used the Beyer DT150 for many many years. However, at home, it was a let down because I was no longer hearing it eq'd.
The ones I'd never sell personally from my terribly large collection are the Senns HD600 and 650 and the Fostex th900, t40 and t50. The 50 and 40's are modified though.
I had the old version of the DT880 way back and really didn't like it. I ended up craving more bass. Certainly, if you're a musician you will be similar to me and want a 'lifelike' bass as opposed to a 'hifi' bass. Hifi people seem to like what is refered to as a balanced bass. To me, it's mean and doesn't resemble what I hear live. They tend to be very analytical rather than portray the guts of the music that you get in a live situation, so you might well prefer a raised bass from what is often called neutral.
One that gives a really big bass is the dt770 pro. I've seen those in studios and at the BBC. Mids are slightly recessed but big bass and very strong top. Very enjoyable for a musician but closed. Although the bass is described as huge on these, I've always found it closer to what I perceive in live situations although the mids aren't as present as a live show.
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Post by marveltone on Mar 26, 2016 15:22:37 GMT
The full but not muddy bass is why I'm leaning towards the DT990. I'm fairly certain I can tweak it enough with the Eq to fit my needs. My only concern is many of the posts on HF claim the treble can be painful. I tend to take their claims with a grain of salt, as they tend to lean towards hi-fi snobbery, which closes their ears and minds to anything less than "real, proper" high-end equipment. I'm a bang for the buck kind of guy. Part of it comes from being a blue collar worker. U build windows for a living and live on a farm. I have a good life, but my money doesn't grow on trees. I'd love to be able to afford an HE400, or an HD6**, but that's not my reality. If I can get 80% of that sound with 50% of the money or less, I'm sure I'll be very happy.
My goal is somewhere in the $300 or less range. I can get the DT990 pro 250 for $150 on Amazon. Right now, my factory is on reduced hours, due to the typical seasonal slump in orders, so I'll need to wait for things to pick up before I can act. That's why I said I'm not in a hurry. I can't change the market, but I do know that things typically pick up in the summer and fall. Until then, I'll keep reading and learning.
Maybe there will be a stand alone filter available for whatever I decide on by then.
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Post by marveltone on Mar 26, 2016 15:24:34 GMT
Sorry, the Oppos may too expensive. You didnt mention budget directly and I've just checked the Dt 990 price. Hope my recommendation wasn't totally without interest. Nothing is without interest. I appreciate all input, whether I can act on it or not. It's all good!
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Post by marveltone on Mar 26, 2016 16:12:45 GMT
Of course, the upside to living in the middle of nowhere is, we have clean air, almost no crime, no traffic jams, I can walk in the woods anytime I like, and I can pee wherever I please!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 26, 2016 16:21:25 GMT
DT990 has a strong treble but it is kind of counter balanced with its raised bass! I see that you have an amp. So with a really small amount of tweaking, the new Fostex T50rp is excellent tonally but an amp is absolutely necessary since they are difficult to drive. I found them very surprising for the cost. No harsh top with mods. They sound great with some electrical tape over the vents and Shure 1540 pads. In fact, tonally, it's close to the hd650 but not quite as open which isn't a surprise since it's semi closed. I find myself using it more and more. It's tough as old boots with an easily swapped out cable as well, so I've been using it semi portable with an amp. They're not too expensive in the UK and don't have the hot treble of the dt990. There is a peak in the treble but it's not as bright as the Beyer and once modded, it really doesn't interfere with an extraordinary bass since it's a planar headphone as well.I think with the pads (which are fantastic) it would cost around $170 in the USA. For the quality of sound, it's terrific. As a side note - because they're so smooth, they're great for recording with. I used to use the dt150 but in all honesty, these are better in the bass and don't show so much of a mid bass hump as the dt150. The giveaway is speech. When engineers speak to you via headphones, the dt150 can boom away which I also notice when listening to the radio. The T50 doesn't, but still gives a nice powerful bass response. The dt880 is quite a bit more expensive and I find it hard to get on with personally. The DT990 is a bargain though for what you're getting. I kind of regard them as a good budget headphone and fun to listen to. No snobs are allowed on here!!! Dynamics come more from the source than a headphone. Most headphones react pretty well as long as you give them a good source. Unfortunately, so many recordings today are crushed to smithereens, so there aren't any real 'dynamics' left. I've found it quite funny on HF where people have tried Sonarworks in order to boost sub bass on their hd650's and some come up with, 'I can't hear any difference'. They're quite right, they can't because there is no sub bass on the recording to speak of!!!! The same unfortunately goes with dynamics. You must know what I mean if you're a musician, since what you hear in the studio and what comes back on the recording don't match what you heard live, dynamically. I always used to refer to 'mini me' coming out of speakers!!! Engineers compress the hell out of recordings and so they crush the dynamic range terribly. I think most engineers are pretty deaf!!!
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Post by marveltone on Mar 26, 2016 16:45:49 GMT
I do have an amp. I listen from my laptop optical out to a Schiit Modi 2 Uber, to a G1217 Project Starlight. I should be good for most cans from 16-300 ohms.
The modded Fostex T50RP MK3 is real tempting, as they're currently $139 on Amazon, and I'm not afraid to mess with stuff with the proper information. They are rather ugly, but i'm not trying to impress anyone, so as long as they sound good and are comfortable, that's all that matters. I see you have a rather detailed thread on your T50 mods. Have you got them to where you're satisfied yet? With no test equipment, I'm at the mercy of those who have already modded them.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Mar 26, 2016 17:07:41 GMT
I've reached a point where I like both aspects of sound and comfort.
I have a T40 mk 2 modded by Solderdude for me. He measured what he was doing and got it pretty flat to say the least and it goes down to 10 Hz. I also have a T50 mk 2 which I kept standard except for pads, which I switched to some cheap Shure ones which cleaned them up a lot for me with a slightly bigger mid bass hump than the modded T40.
I got the T50 mk3 recently. Very different to the mk2 with stronger treble. I liked it actually as it was except the bass wasn't as deep as my T40 and the pads were quite nasty on your ears after an hour.
So I got into playing around with it, using the HD650 and the T40 as my 'target' sound.
The mods are stupidly easy to do and I think I've reached what I prefer via pads and venting.
The Shure pads that I used are drop dead gorgeous. They're deep and are made from memory foam so they sit on your head like a fluffy pillow. I found that they raised the mid bass so I opened them up and blocked the vents on the back of the cups which immediately put the bass more into control and I became more aware of deeper bass although it wasn't strong enough for me, so I blocked 4 vents on the inside of the cups with electrical tape, which sticks like buggery and bass came up big time.
It now has a warm sound with deep bass, quite similar to the hd650. Not as open but in effect, it is a closed headphone, but tonally, it's extremely good imo. You don't realise just how good until you start comparing with other headphones that seem really off by comparison. My dt150 sounds way off in the bass if I compare directly.
Yes, it is an ugly headphone, but I don't care about those things. The mods are just nothing and done literally in minutes. No sharp treble. Warm and goes deep. Speech sounds pretty good from the radio as well with no bloom. I always use speech to test for mid bass humps since mens' voices can sound awful when they are close mic'd.
By comparison, the DT990 has much more of a treble edge. The Grado sr60i sounds like a cheese grater by comparison though so the difference for you would be quite dramatic.
Don't forget the cost of pads though. They're not a cheap pad.
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howie
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Post by howie on Mar 26, 2016 18:43:13 GMT
You have a very versatile amplifier and The DT990 pairs very well with a large variety of tubes and opamps in Starlight. Sure the DT990 has an inherent V shaped sound signature, but both ends can be enhanced or attenuated by the many tweaks that Starlight offers, both with tubes and opamps. I find it very easy to tweak the treble to my liking depending on the recording.
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Post by marveltone on Mar 26, 2016 21:05:17 GMT
You have a very versatile amplifier and The DT990 pairs very well with a large variety of tubes and opamps in Starlight. Sure the DT990 has an inherent V shaped sound signature, but both ends can be enhanced or attenuated by the many tweaks that Starlight offers, both with tubes and opamps. I find it very easy to tweak the treble to my liking depending on the recording. Are you using Starlight and DT990 currently? If so, do you have any experiences or observations you can share regarding that combination?
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Post by marveltone on Mar 27, 2016 1:23:21 GMT
Anyone here ever try the Fostex T20? Looks pretty identical to the T50, but open.
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