Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 3, 2016 19:49:45 GMT
Roughly what I paid for them in the end plus postage from Scotland.
I'm quite impressed Mark. They are sensitive enough to run straight from an IPod but they sing on an amp. Great clarity . They are definitely worth £109. If I listened without knowing the price, I'd be thinking expensive if the build was less plastic. They are light as a feather to wear though.
I wasn't that bothered about getting them due to the reviews, but actually, now I have them, I think they're brilliant. A very different sound for that price because it really is so open and translucent sounding. There's something really special about the sound that makes it seem as though it ought to be way more expensive.
It kind of reminds me of the k612/k712 but more life in the sound. It's brighter than the k712 but it is so rich and open.
Someone will be getting a really good headphone for that money.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 5, 2016 10:06:31 GMT
You know, headphone cost is a bit off kilter when you hear something like these. They sound extremely good. Even better from an amp which is surprising given their low impedance, but I'm beginning to think that they need quite a bit of current to drive them properly. They go loud enough on an IPod, but I think the bass slightly improves via an amp.
I am veering towards these by preference most of the time TBH and am starting to wonder exactly how much it actually costs to make a headphone, I have a th900 sitting on its stand beside these and the difference in price is massive. Yet, I find myself drawn to these due to real inner clarity and rubber band bass!!
Since these have been sold around £100, I do wonder just how much those drivers are worth. Presuming that the profit might be 100% (?) that leaves about £50 for materials. Less than £25 per driver!! That is really cheap, so just how much is a th900 actually worth?
Values placed on headphones is quite worrying since it just doesn't guarantee any form of quality. Materials are generally a bit better on expensive products but these headphones stand up really well against much more expensive headphones. These are a bargain I think, but are many other headphones priced way too high? Superlux are a great example of good sounding headphones at great prices and actually, so are these.
The leap from these to an he400i is quite large since it costs three times more. He560 even more, but are these more premium headphones actually good value?
I'm not so sure, given what some of the cheaper ones do.
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Post by marveltone on Oct 5, 2016 10:27:09 GMT
So many times, price is set by name brand recognition. Throw in an old, established name with a history of quality and suddenly you have more wiggle room to jack up the price. People like premium labels, so they're willing to pay for it.
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jello
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Post by jello on Oct 5, 2016 11:40:04 GMT
I was mulling over this myself the other day.
Headphones don't seem all that complicated (in relative terms) which make me wonder if there is any reason why someone couldn't make and sell a 'flagship' quality headphone for £100 say? Obviously concentrating on the sound and ditching fancy extras like wooden boxes, afghan yak leather headbands etc.
Perhaps there are genuinely cost reasons for the higher prices e.g. material costs, (lack of) economies of scale, marketing, more technologically advanced manufacturing process, top level sound engineers to pay, technological investments (perhaps like the motor industry these things filter down to the more budget offerings?), longer R&D time (although Mr Speakers seems capable of knocking them out at will!).
Or is it simply a case that they charge £1k upwards because they can? We (to varying degrees) are now conditioned to think that a good headphone costs that much and that price equates to quality? And as marveltone says brand awareness / perception is a big thing, just as it is with phones, clothing etc.
Or perhaps it's a mixture? Regardless I'd love to see a breakdown of the unit costs for a top tier headphone!
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 5, 2016 13:35:22 GMT
It is worrying, because you can get quite amazing results from cheaper headphones. Obviously, if the companies use premium materials, that will perhaps raise the price, but not as much as I feel that some make out.
There are development costs to pay I guess, but somehow, Hifiman has released a headphone that is really respectful at a very low cost. If they can do it, then why can't Sennheiser or Beyer?
Until I bought the th900, I always set a limit on what I would pay for a headphone. That was £200. I raised it to £300 in a mad moment and on retirement, I bout the Fostex. For that Fostex, I could have bought 9 or 10 he350s. I really don't mind using the Fostex or the 350!! The Hifiman doesn't sound bad by comparison.
Obviously, people into headphones want the best that they can get, but I can't help feeling that we are all being led into £1000+ headphones, when there isn't one up there that is either flat in FR or always very nice in timbre.
The th900 has shown me that price doesn't always mean it's the best. I like the Fostex, but equally, I like the Hifiman and tend to go for it more at the moment. Both have a strong top end but actually, the Hifiman is pretty well balanced at a tenth of the price.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 6, 2016 17:02:48 GMT
If all goes well I may probably have an HE-350 on Saturday.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 6, 2016 17:12:37 GMT
The EBay one Frans?
Although it has that top end, it has me thinking about the he400i TBH. The top doesn't get to me so it must be something to do with where it is.
Possibly, this one is just a good value headphone though and it might not necessarily run up the range......
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jello
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Post by jello on Oct 6, 2016 17:24:02 GMT
If all goes well I may probably have an HE-350 on Saturday. I have just infiltrated the Craig residence so Saturday is a go. I repeat Saturday is a go
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 6, 2016 17:28:20 GMT
Well the pub might be running by then.
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jello
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Post by jello on Oct 6, 2016 18:25:12 GMT
Well the pub might be running by then. Cool, I'll stay for a game of darts in that case
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 6, 2016 18:27:57 GMT
Bring a helmet ....
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jello
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Post by jello on Oct 6, 2016 19:38:50 GMT
I was thinking more along the lines of chain mail! Getting back on track do you find that pad placement (moving up and down the sliders) changes the sound much on your HE-350 Ian? With my pair I find that I there's a sweet spot and if I wear them a notch up or down they just don't sound quite so good. I know my ear is moving about relative to the drivers but some headphones don't seem so fussy.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 6, 2016 20:46:12 GMT
I haven't noticed, Mark. I'll try it.
The fit might be awkward for some since the cups are really quite big and the pads (new) are quite stiff.
Do you have both the 400 and the 560? If you do, is the 560 noticeably better than the 400? Someone on HF told me that the bass is deeper on the 400 and mids a bit stronger, which is no bad thing, but I'm now beginning to think that the 560 must be pretty good in that case!!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 6, 2016 21:01:30 GMT
The EBay one Frans? Although it has that top end, it has me thinking about the he400i TBH. The top doesn't get to me so it must be something to do with where it is. Possibly, this one is just a good value headphone though and it might not necessarily run up the range...... Nope one from a local guy near-by. I guess he wasn't impressed by it ? Will listen to it first and when it has potential will buy it. Seems fixable to me. The quite high bass distortion can not be fixed though.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 6, 2016 21:06:45 GMT
The bass distortion possibly adds a (false) warmth similar to the hd650 bass. I don't hear it as a cold headphone as far as the treble goes. The treble is hot and maybe the mids could be slightly more forward, but I quite like the way that the bass has been done.
I think the extra kick in the top helps with clarity for my ears which may not be so good these days up there. I don't know, but I don't find it as bad as some have made out on HF.
That slight raise in the bass is nice and hopefully, raising the lower section won't reveal distortion nasties......
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