solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 6, 2016 21:09:26 GMT
I would go for the HE560 or find a second hand HE-6
On the other hand, though a bit too heavy, the latest LCD-2 (Fazor) sounded great to me. Cracking wood, failing drivers maybe that belongs to the past now.
If only that weight ....
Maybe the ETHER flow ?
Utopia ? well you would have to raise your maximum price limit for that one. It seems only slightly better than HD800 ?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 6, 2016 21:23:45 GMT
I think I'd probably like the Ether sound with its bass.
I think with the he350, it probably depends on where you're coming from with its treble presentation. It might seem quite Grado like with a better bass, although I find the Grado treble a bit messy, and edgy. Msr7 sounds like a 'messy' treble to me TBH. Just not smooth and extended but the he350 is a little better refined, although still a bit ragged I guess.
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jello
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Post by jello on Oct 6, 2016 21:30:57 GMT
I haven't noticed, Mark. I'll try it. The fit might be awkward for some since the cups are really quite big and the pads (new) are quite stiff. Do you have both the 400 and the 560? If you do, is the 560 noticeably better than the 400? Someone on HF told me that the bass is deeper on the 400 and mids a bit stronger, which is no bad thing, but I'm now beginning to think that the 560 must be pretty good in that case!! It might just be me! I haven't heard the HE-400 (a few years out of production now) so can't offer any comparisons unfortunately. The one I have is their entry level planar the 400s (they also have the 400i which sits between the 400s and 560 in the range) and the 560 is noticeably better. But the 560 costs almost 3x more. Good headphone though and really easy to drive which is why I like it.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 6, 2016 21:32:26 GMT
It was one I considered but so many went on about the top end again!!
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jello
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Post by jello on Oct 6, 2016 21:35:40 GMT
It was one I considered but so many went on about the top end again!! The 400s? I didn't find it all that much of an issue with the stock pads and HM5 angled pleathers can be used to tame it a bit whilst also giving a bit more low end.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 6, 2016 21:39:36 GMT
Oh, sorry Mark. I meant the he560. I saw lots of reports (like the he350) about its top end.
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jello
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Post by jello on Oct 6, 2016 21:44:33 GMT
I've read that a few times and don't really hear it myself. Perhaps it depends on amp pairing but with the 3 amps I've used it's never been an issue. The only real peak that Frans had to tame with the module was around 5kHz and he took off -5dB. The only other adjustment he made up top I believe was to add +1dB at 15kHz to create a bit of lift..he tells me that carries on up to 100kHz but I can't vouch for that!! But the best judge of these things is your own ears and the offer is always there
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 6, 2016 21:48:41 GMT
Oh, that's interesting. The he350 might have one around the same place, I think. I don't find it a problem, but I suspect it might depend on what headphone that you've come from. For me, it adds a shimmer up top but maybe my ears are damaged up there? I don't find it too bad at all, although it is relatively sharper than many other headphones.
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jello
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Post by jello on Oct 6, 2016 21:55:00 GMT
I did notice that in the plots on HF. It might be that's an area that some people are particularly sensitive?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 7, 2016 19:08:35 GMT
Have the HE350 on my head. It was not used. The guy who bought it had a relatively large head and showed me it couldn't be set high enough so it didn't fit him.
It does fit me.
Had forgotten to take my player with me... stupid thing to do. If I had and had listened I would probably not have bought it. Clearly entry level headphone and definitely not nearly as good as HD600.
The bass is a bit 'wooly' and defenitely not clean/tight. Does have a good extension though. Slightly on the low side in level compared to how I like it. The treble is in one word awfull ! It is sharp and sibilant and has little real details, but a lot of fake detail. Clarity is good though. Also 'separation' is good, no muffled or unclear sound. Good dynamics. I suspect measurements will slow a substantial peak in the treble. Assuming this can be addressed. Music of which I know sounds very warm and has very subdued treble sounds 'near flat'. I suspect that this headphone may work well with classical music.
Perhaps with enough mods it may still make a nice headphone though.
A LONG LONG way removed from the HE400i.
Will measure it in the coming days.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 7, 2016 19:17:54 GMT
Just used the tone control of the X3 and set the treble to -5dB and it became a lot more listenable. Got a headache after 5 mins already... damn ... that sharp treble. With the treble down 5 notches and the bass turned up one notch it sounds decent to good (al di meola) so there is potential here for sure.
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jello
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Post by jello on Oct 7, 2016 19:19:57 GMT
Do you think that if the peak can be addressed it will allow more real detail to come through Frans, or is it a case that the driver is the limiting factor here?
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 7, 2016 19:30:35 GMT
I suspect something can be done with felt or toilet paper but that may not be enough or eat away too much from the treble extension. Perhaps a filter much like the HD681 may work wonders here as well.
Not near the sound quality of all other HiFimans... Never heard the HE300 though.
Still ... it has a very open sound, a smidgeon lean in the lows. Don't know if it is a driver issue, may well be a pad issue or too little damping.
Will try to find out more in the coming week.
The openness and relative 'flat' (aside from the treble) signature gives me the idea it could be improved. I wonder how big the spread is within these headphones ?
Didn't read reviews (except Ian's) but have been reading and concur with the reviews. slightly lean in the lows, good mids, open sound, decent comfort (pads are not very comfortable) and WAY too much and sharp treble.
Perhaps HM5 hybrid pads may work here...
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 7, 2016 21:06:18 GMT
Blimey, I know it's bright but never felt it was that bad!! It seems to have slight similarities with the hd800 headphones in frequency response, although technically, it's inferior .... Senn 800s Senn 800 Hifiman Maybe I should buy a Senn? Scales are different but there's a slightly similar shape and treble (and bass) response. The Hifiman peak in the treble is slightly higher though. I took a look at the he400i and he560 FR graphs and both suddenly drop off at 10khz. Bass on both looks really good but there is that sudden dive there.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Oct 8, 2016 7:10:00 GMT
Just connected the HE350 on the Kameleon with HD800 module. Tonal balance improves (but not quite there yet) bass quantity is now too much and too 'wooly' not as tight as HD800 on Kameleon. What's obvious is that when the HD800 is corrected the phenomenal treble is still there but not sharp anymore but still detailed. With the HE350 the level is O.K. but it totally sucked the life out of the treble quality. I thought I heard the lack of 'nuances/finesse' in the HE350 but was kind of masked by the elevated treble supplying 'fake' detail. Maybe the filter is not really suited ? maybe the HE350 isn't capable of really fine nuances (think HD650/HD800). To me the HD662-EVO (1/3 of the HE350 price) has better 'quality' than the HE350 on HD800 module.
Time to measure it and play with materials and Kameleon filters...
Perhaps seeing the HD800 as a (much) higher sound quality HE350 is close to the truth. The HD800 needs some help so this one does as well.
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