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Post by scrowler on Jun 16, 2016 20:35:36 GMT
Anyway, id like to ask you guys, how do you determine safe listening levels and what frequencies are dangerous? Ive heard that so subbass frequency is very dangerous, but then again i also heard that 2-4khz is. Some articles even say that earphones are dangerous because pneumatic pressure. But some say earphones are good because you can set them on lower level = lower db. I normally wear phones just to block outside noise, and turn up volume just enough so i can hear stuff ( tho with 2010, i just cant hear some stuff lol). I feel like i wouldnt miss bass and sub and could go directly to AD700 or 700x if open is any better for gaming... dont want to become can collector tho So i will just EQ down the bass. And if i find info that i can turn up high frequencies without endagering my hearing otherwise i will be happy with darker sounding can. Still SIK HF2011 and putting gain on highs is like AHHH so good enjoyable music and is the only step that makes me from being still listening to music to bobbing my head spreading my arms and enjoying the extasis
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jun 17, 2016 10:02:54 GMT
There ONLY is some pneumatic pressure while inserting IEM's. Maybe some pneumatic pressure with sealed headphones while suddenly pressing them onto your ears fast. In normal operating all on and over ears have the same atmospheric pressure as the air around you. All SPL above a 80dB (average) is potentially dangerous depending on duration. It's the average levels that are usually shown in those SPL lists that show how much SPL. This is somewhat misleading as a gunshot or canonshot are peaks where jet engines or streetnoises are average levels. The ear is most sensitive around 3-4kHz so less pressure is needed to get the idea something is loud. For low frequencies the ear isn't as sensitive. To get the same 'sensation' of loudness the SPL needs to be higher (Fletcher Munson) The higher the SPL is the smaller the differences between bass and mids in SPL so I don't think one frequency is more dangerous than others. As the highest frequencies get the most abuse (closest to the eardrum) it could be likely that the highest frequencies are most vulnerable but a specific 'band' could also be damaged where other bands sustain less damage, depending on the loud noise perhaps. Average music levels are about 10 to 15dB lower than peak levels (depends on the DR rating). I have written something about listening levels in the HD650 article
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 17, 2016 12:21:23 GMT
Sound level is crucial to my enjoyment of headphones. Too much, as you say, is dangerous and too little means that the music is less involving.
I think more potentially dangerous are peaks in headphone response. I adjust for mids presence and then perhaps back off a little from there. If there is a peak, then that's going to be way above the average level at that point. I wonder whether that can induce tinnitus with some headphones.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jun 17, 2016 14:03:11 GMT
I know that the stock HD800, even when not playing loud, triggers a continuous 'beep' in my ear. When playing from the Kameleon (which removes the 6kHz peak) I can play much louder and don't get the 'beep tone'.
It doesn't seem to be level related. Possibly there is some psycho-acoustics thing going on, a brain thingy. Strangely enough, other headphones that have a peak in the treble do not envoke the beep. Only happens with the stock HD800 at all kinds of levels.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 17, 2016 16:03:43 GMT
Dare I say it ........... The inside of your head ringing? I find similar effects with Grados, Sony v6 and the K701 in particular. Maybe they send out more at a frequency that your ears are very sensitive to? Do you get a peak if you listen to a frequency sweep Frans? I know that headphones aren't great for these really, but if you're hearing a peak in roughly the same place on more than one headphone, it could actually be a frequency that you're sensitive to. I think perhaps if we listen loud and the headphone has a peak, that could set something off but for some, that level might need to be a lot lower than they think because we tend to base our listening level on a 'presence' and 'average level' kind of way. Volume is something that isn't really discussed; even when reviewing headphones which seems strange to me because I find that they all 'focus' at different volumes. Volume matching and comparing is all very well, but some just don't work well to my ears at certain volumes. The v6 is quite nasty at higher levels but fine at lower. The K701 for me had something wrong in the treble and I tried very hard to like it because of all the hype!!! Hd650 is a nice medium to loud listen for me. Dt990 low to medium. Looking at what I tend to use, it may be treble related. I'm not sure because the Nighthawk worked low and high for me!!!
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Post by scrowler on Jun 26, 2016 12:58:28 GMT
I know that the stock HD800, even when not playing loud, triggers a continuous 'beep' in my ear. When playing from the Kameleon (which removes the 6kHz peak) I can play much louder and don't get the 'beep tone'. It doesn't seem to be level related. Possibly there is some psycho-acoustics thing going on, a brain thingy. Strangely enough, other headphones that have a peak in the treble do not envoke the beep. Only happens with the stock HD800 at all kinds of levels. Suppose brain wants to compensate for the sound. I would like to ask you, what are your thoughts on EQ. Software: EqualizerAPO, RoomEQ or band EQ in Foobar. Your mod craftsmanship makes it almost obsolete, but I wonder if it has any downsides.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jun 26, 2016 17:55:40 GMT
I don't use any digital EQ myself.
Still I think EQ CAN help a lot in improving the tonal balance of a headphone. Unfortunately tonal balance is not the only important parameter. You can EQ 2 headphones almsot perfectly flat using digital EQ but they still won't sound exactly the same. The tonal balance of both will be correct BUT one of the headphones may still sound much better.
So 'you can't polish a turd' applies to headphones in a big way. Not all headphones react equally well to EQ also.
This is why I always say you should only use EQ (or the Kameleon which is an analog dedicated EQ) for headphones that are good enough to begin with.
My experience with digital EQ is rather limited and the few I tried (firmware in players as well as software) never left me with the feeling there weren't some downsides as well.
Those graphic EQ's all have some pre- and post-ringing in the EQ band. This may well be audible. When a notch filter is set for 6kHz the filter will pre-/post-ring at 6kHz. Also analog graphic EQ's have ringing but less and only post ringing.
This pre- and post-ringing thus is present IN the audible range where the typical DAC ringing occurs well ABOVE the audible range at 22kHz or 24kHz for instance. My ears can't hear that high up. Of course, many people are of the opinion that on a subconscious level we can still 'detect' is as a loss of realism. That's another discussion though. Here we are talking about ringing INSIDE the audible band.
Another thing is that for those who insist on 'bitperfect' can never use digital EQ nor volume controls.
A downside of digital EQ is the lowering of the output level which reduces the available bit depth. In order to 'boost' something in a digital file everything must be attenuated (software calculation) first otherwise the music would clip as soon as a slider is pushed upwards.
This is why I prefer analog EQ and then prefer gentle shelving over (mostly needed as well) peak filtering at a specific band and bandwidth (Q) over digital parametric EQ. Analog EQ has no influence on the digital signal and thus the signal stays original.
Of course you can't completely get the headphone to become 'flat' with simple analog EQ which is possible with multiband parametric EQ. BUT (there is always a but) on which 'graph' or 'ears' would you base the settings ?
When you look at graphs of the same headphone (well same type assuming production spread is small) you will find everyone has different plots. Sometimes the difference is well over 5dB..
So this prompts me to 'believe' you should NOT EQ as exact as possible based on measurement A, B or Z or because person C or D claims it sounds best when 'their' EQ is used. An EQ that may have multiple frequency pre- and/or post ringing as well. Instead I believe it is best to start out with a 'good' headphone to begin with and only compensate for the 'average' tonal balance compensation and only use 1 (or at the most 2) notch filters that can be set to the exact frequency and Q.
This way the tonal balance is EQ'ed 'better' than before and the equalizer circuit itself doesn't impose any downsides on the sound. It also ensures some of the 'character' of the headphone remains which may be pleasant.
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