jello
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Post by jello on May 20, 2017 0:47:20 GMT
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Post by ronzo56 on Jul 7, 2017 2:02:26 GMT
A friend is going to be on the road for a couple of months, so he is parking his HD 600 with me temporarily. Just out of curiosity I tried the SeNNator/HD650 filter/amp with them. I liked the improvement. Got me wondering how much difference in correction there is between the HD600 and HD650 filters. Not sure yet if I would use the 650 filter on the 600 long term. It's doing something up higher (upper mids/lower treble??) that I'm not sure about.
Edit: stick with the filter for the corresponding headphone. HD650 filter helps with the sub-bass on the 600. But females vocals become sibilant, among other issues.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 7, 2017 8:10:17 GMT
I use the hd600 with the hd650 filter, Ron. mainly because I haven't got an hd600 filter but I guess the differences between the two headphones might be similar to without filter since they are both same impedance and sensitivity.
I don't find it too bad, although I'm guessing that the lowered mid bass might be making it a bit thinner sounding plus the top being raised a bit. Then again, that is one of the differences between the two of them showing.
I have a short lead on my HD600 for portable use and a long lead on my HD650 for home use. I use the DT770 with filter for closed listening.
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Post by ronzo56 on Jul 7, 2017 17:13:43 GMT
I think I hear more of a difference when I go directly from listening to the HD 650 to the HD600. Female vocals just a little sibilant or perhaps more sibilant than without the filter. I do enjoy the sub-bass with the filter on the HD 600. I like the HD600 a lot. Very good for a longer listen. No fatigue at all. These are going to be right at home here. Trouble will be when he comes to get his stuff back.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 7, 2017 17:23:02 GMT
Without filter, I prefer the hd600 although its treble is supposed to be not as refined as the hd650. I use it with my hd650 filter all of the time. The extra brightness can come in handy and as you say, it does develop more sub bass with the filter.
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Post by rshack on Jul 15, 2017 12:16:49 GMT
Hi... new guy here...
Am seriously looking at buying a Project Kameleon from G1217 (to go between a Centrance DACmini and a Project Ember II).
One problem is that this has made me stop and think about how many headphones I have... and, boy, do I have way too many. * AKG K701 * AKG K7XX * ATH-900X (looks like no module exists) * Beyer DT900-250 (the 05 version, pre-Pro; not sure if a module exists) * HiFiMan HE-500 * Fostex TH-X00 Mahogany * Grado 325i (I realize Grado's are not relevant here) * Monoprice M1060 * Senn HD-600 * Senn HD-6XX * Sony MDR-V6 (no module exists; plus, my bride confiscated them for her own use re: Led Zep on her laptop)
As you can see, this has gotten a bit nuts. I'm certainly not gonna buy Kameleon filter modules for all of them. So, I'm trying to figure out which 3 (or 4) of them would best demonstrate Kameleon's benefits. (Then maybe I can sell some of the others to help pay for the Kameleon and its modules.)
So, which 3 (or 4) of this list would most benefit from a Kameleon module?
thanks a bunch...
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 15, 2017 16:13:37 GMT
Welcome RShack. Nice to see a new member posting. The Senns. My best sound comes from the hd650 via a Kameleon. I use the same filter with an hd600 too. It's not quite the same as having an HD600 filter but is still extremely good. I'm not keen on fitting and refitting filters since the effect in the socket might be to shorten its life. So I leave an hd650 in mine. I have a couple of others so one other has a beyer DT770 filter which is also excellent for closed use. That leaves a spare, which I hope to get an AKG k712 filter for some time. That's the only thing .... really, the Kameleon, once set up works with one headphone as it should and then works differently with others, although I find others to be perfectly acceptable. You have a nice collection there and with one filter for your most commonly used headphone might actually sound fine with others. After all, if they're not flat now and remain not flat on the Kameleon in a slightly different way, it doesn't harm at all and some actually still seem to improve to my ears. Would you believe that I also use the hd650 filter with a px100 and a Momentum over ear?
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Post by marveltone on Jul 15, 2017 16:21:09 GMT
Ian, if you ever get the Kameleon filter for the K712, please let the rest of us know how it sounds, especially compared to the HD650. I think I'd eventually like to get one for my K7XX and am wondering how close it can get me to the Seen/Kameleon goodness.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 15, 2017 16:50:46 GMT
The K712 filter has been designed by Frans. Just like RShak, I have the same issue .... too many headphones so for me, It's probably best to just have filters for the better headphones which respond more sensitively to EQ.
I like the k712 a lot since it already has a deep bass presence. I think the filter will raise that a little and maybe cut the infamous AKG treble leak that so many have. If I get one, I will certainly compare with the hd650.
Having said that, the DT770 brings that one 'closer' to the Senn and I much prefer it via the Kameleon.
Another one that might work well is the Momentum, of Frans has designed one.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jul 15, 2017 17:32:45 GMT
Just checked. Frans has indeed designed a K712 filter which lifts sub bass and makes the headphone slightly less warm sounding while taking down the peak that I was talking about!! There you go .... irons out the most obvious things that are noticeable with the K712.
He's also sneaked a Momentum one in which puts a bit more 'air' into its sound which would also be very welcome with this headphone.
I think the real 'art' in these filters is spotting where the problems that are obvious exactly, in order to help the headphone sing. It's no easy task to get the exact spot right while trying to get the headphone to retain its own 'special' character which is the reason why we keep them in the first place!!
So for instance, the hd650 still sounds like an hd650 but just sounds better and more realistic. Same with the dt770. The headphone's own signature kind of remains but it is improved.....
The most common kind of skepticism I've seen on HF regarding the Kameleon is the fact that I think most of the critics EQ their headphones by 'ear' which is not the best way to do it. They dial in their preferences and think that the EQ on the Kameleon filters is done the same way. Certainly not and to my ears, seems way more accurate when Frans gets his mits on the headphone. Much more easy for long term listening g as well with the listening volume not being anything like as critical as it can be otherwise in order to get a good 'presence'.
In fact, I can listen at extremely low volume with them and still feel a sense of presence there. The only danger though is that it is also easier to go a lot louder without pain!!
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jul 16, 2017 7:02:19 GMT
Hi... new guy here... Am seriously looking at buying a Project Kameleon from G1217 (to go between a Centrance DACmini and a Project Ember II). One problem is that this has made me stop and think about how many headphones I have... and, boy, do I have way too many. * AKG K701 * AKG K7XX * ATH-900X (looks like no module exists) * Beyer DT900-250 (the 05 version, pre-Pro; not sure if a module exists) * HiFiMan HE-500 * Fostex TH-X00 Mahogany * Grado 325i (I realize Grado's are not relevant here) * Monoprice M1060 * Senn HD-600 * Senn HD-6XX * Sony MDR-V6 (no module exists; plus, my bride confiscated them for her own use re: Led Zep on her laptop) As you can see, this has gotten a bit nuts. I'm certainly not gonna buy Kameleon filter modules for all of them. So, I'm trying to figure out which 3 (or 4) of them would best demonstrate Kameleon's benefits. (Then maybe I can sell some of the others to help pay for the Kameleon and its modules.) So, which 3 (or 4) of this list would most benefit from a Kameleon module? thanks a bunch... Wecome Rshack. * AKG K701 This one cannot be corrected entirely but does add subbass and makes it less bright. Otherwise a good headphone. * AKG K7XX Did not measure it, based on 3rd party plots. * ATH-900X (looks like no module exists) Did not look into it. Could design a filter which adds subbas, lowers the (somewhat loose ? bass) slightly, improve clarity/presence and remove the treble peak. * Beyer DT900-250 (the 05 version, pre-Pro; not sure if a module exists) Knowing Beyer I don't expect the sound signature to have changed much from the 2005 version to the Pro version. Might be safe to use the pro filter. The DT990 has big bass but lacks 'grunt' and has a too lively 'top' which needs taming. When you like the bass on the DT990 (many do) but just want that top tamed you could slip some toilet paper between the foam and the driver. * HiFiMan HE-500 * Fostex TH-X00 Mahogany This might well be worth filtering. That is is you find it to be a tad too warm and want a bit less treble peak. * Grado 325i (I realize Grado's are not relevant here) The problem with Grado's is that they react poorly to EQ. When you EQ the treble peak it looses too much details and sounds poorer. When you EQ the bass it doesn't improve much and subbass isn't really added. The small peak in the upper mids (forwardness) is too narrow to correct with a Kameleon. * Monoprice M1060 Seems like a viable option for filtering. * Senn HD-600 Perfect candidate * Senn HD-6XX = HD650 and is perfect candidate. The HD600 and HD650 once EQ'ed (with their own filters) are hard to tell apart so filtering them both may not be the most economic thing to do. Would pick one of them. The HD600 will become slightly less 'clear' and get a full bottom end. The HD650 will become less 'warmish' and get a better bottom end and a bit more 'sparkle' * Sony MDR-V6 (no module exists; plus, my bride confiscated them for her own use re: Led Zep on her laptop) There are several 3rd party plots but some are contradicting each other. The 'problem' I see with v6 is the treble quality which cannot be improved much with a filter. The tonal balance could be changed but some plots suggests it is neutral. Others suggest it has a bit too much bass and has 'cold' mids. Would need to measure it to make a good correction. It is intended to be a tool for monitoring for which it is perfectly suited.
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Post by marveltone on Jul 17, 2017 1:48:32 GMT
Frans, if we weren't half a world away, I would gladly ship my K7XX to you for measurements on your rig. Alas, shipping from me to you would likely be brutal.
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Sept 3, 2017 18:26:51 GMT
is Kameleon still supported by G1217?
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Post by ronzo56 on Sept 3, 2017 19:12:40 GMT
It was when I checked the site yesterday. Is it gone?
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Sept 3, 2017 19:20:54 GMT
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