Rabbit
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Pono
Mar 16, 2014 19:50:49 GMT
Post by Rabbit on Mar 16, 2014 19:50:49 GMT
I was watching 'Click' today and saw a new idea based on hi res files being bought and downloaded to your computer, without DRM (so I guess much like using Itunes) and then loading the files onto a toblerone player called the Pono. They're a bit odd looking but claims are that they will offer real audiophile quality for downloaders.
One thing they've overlooked. Upsampled masters, will sound the same!! Until we stop the compression nonsense and give a full dynamic range at hi res, these players may well sound the same as everything else!!
So studios need to change as well which means a different set of masters to use for these files or the format will fail. My guess is that many won't bother because the price for these files will be higher than normal and if they sound the same - well, why bother.
Bit like playing DVD's on Blueray players. You're basically looking at a DVD!!
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solderdude
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Pono
Mar 16, 2014 21:15:02 GMT
Post by solderdude on Mar 16, 2014 21:15:02 GMT
Tyll also covered the PonoI guess it may serve its purpose but don't think it will become huge.
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neo
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Pono
Apr 15, 2014 12:52:01 GMT
Post by neo on Apr 15, 2014 12:52:01 GMT
Doesn't Fiio and Hifiman already produce Hi-Res DAPs? It looks ugly btw..Good luck in carrying that in your pocket
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Rabbit
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Pono
Apr 15, 2014 13:12:24 GMT
Post by Rabbit on Apr 15, 2014 13:12:24 GMT
It is very odd looking isn't it? Being hi res and all that, I guess it needs a good strong battery to keep going longer than an hour or so!!
I can't see it doing that well myself, let alone the shape of it. Most people use downloaded/ripped files anyway and I suspect it's a marketing thing for companies to test a new market, similar to hires Audio Bluray discs that are also due to come out.
Perhaps CD's are going down the analogue LP route?
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Javier
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Post by Javier on Apr 16, 2014 7:28:26 GMT
The Pono has been designed by Ayre's people and is based on the mobile Sabre so technically should quite a decent DAP.
BTW, Bluray audio discs are already available though from what I've read they have mostly all based on very heavily DR compressed masters.
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Rabbit
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Pono
Apr 16, 2014 9:39:38 GMT
Post by Rabbit on Apr 16, 2014 9:39:38 GMT
BTW, Bluray audio discs are already available though from what I've read they have mostly all based on very heavily DR compressed masters. That's what I felt would happen Javier. No point really, although it may take on with people not so aware of hi fi since the format is going to work in Bluray players (I think or is that wrong?) so customers can hear their CD's on the TV as well as via an amp!! It's all so convenient, under the pretext of 'high resolution.' Reminds me of the transition from LP to CD and the remasters that were just plain awful. What has always surprised me is how the professionals seem to 'not notice' the flaws. I felt that CD's were nasty sounding at first and many people thought that I was just being bloody minded. I couldn't understand how people working in the area couldn't 'hear' it for themselves! Mind you, I was told by one of the chief engineers working on the setting up of DAB in the UK at the time it was being set up, that the format was inferior and would become outdated within a few years. How right he was, all those years ago. Now it looks as though FM will stay for a while in the UK thank goodness. Another surprise - I have a friend who is a cameraman for BBC news. He's into cameras big time and he reckons that 3D will be a total waste of time too and once again, the format is 'flawed'. (Unnatural depth and the 'flattening' of imgages within the 3D) He really doesn't like it. I don't mind it - especially since I have this huge 3D tv in my front room, staring at me, but the images can look two dimensional on different planes, as he described. I do wonder whether 3D will stay. It would be nice if a strong format for music sticks; especially with memory being quite cheap now. Once people become accustomed to proper hi res sound, then perhaps they would turn their noses up at lesser formats too, but my guess is that downloads (and lesser formats) will prevail with their cheapness and hi res stuff will price itself out of the market, although I don't see why this is done. Once the recording places are set up, the running costs will be parallel (surely) with any other studio which means that the files don't need to be ott as far as pricing goes. My guess is that the pricing will put it off the 'wish lists' of most people except enthusiasts. Barry Diament is doing some wonderful recordings on hi res, but the pricing and the market make it so 'enthusiast' level (let alone the music that he records) so that it is a minority thing with less sales, making it more expensive which is a great pity. You end up buying music that you wouldn't normally listen to just to listen to the format and hear how superior it is. (Typical hi fi nerd thing to do really) If a mainstream recording company turn to hi res, (Like Sony), then we'd see sales perhaps since they have major artists rather than little jazz groups for hi fi people to discern the subtleties of the new format with no real appreciation of the music!!!
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Deleted
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Pono
Apr 16, 2014 19:56:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 19:56:43 GMT
Some of my thoughts on hires.
I have some Eagles albums from HD Tracks in 24/192. Listening to the same tracks in 16/44, I found a slight improvement only. The hires sounded slightly cleaner. Only slightly mind. A friend gave me Files of "On The Border" in 24/96, and neither of us can tell the difference between the 96 and 192khz versions.
I remember reading Frans saying that the bit depth was (generally) more important than the sampling rate. I have also read Noel Keywood of Hi-Fi World say the same thing.
But I feel what you are saying about the masters is spot on as well. And maybe a recording engineer who knows what he is doing as well?
I have many albums recorded in plain old Redbook, which p*ss all over some 24/96 recordings sound quality wise. No magic, just that they've been recorded really well.
I think that an album recorded with engineers who know what they are doing, without loudness or compression, can easily sound as good or better than hires albums.
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solderdude
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Pono
Apr 17, 2014 19:42:15 GMT
Post by solderdude on Apr 17, 2014 19:42:15 GMT
From what I understand from the website the secret is not in the player itself which is good enough in itself. Also I don't think the added value is in the format (as 16/44 is also available). The 'secret sauce' is in the recording end and ease of use.
It seems they are aware the biggest hurdle is in the recording and mastering stage. What I think they are planning is to offer (for a too high price ?) WELL recorded albums only.
The other comfort is the one shop policy (like the i-tunes store) and they claim organising and transferring music to the player and operating it is very intuitive and easy.
I don't think it will be adopted as much as the other offerings around and don't think the Pono player will reach i-pod status or sold as much as Sansa players. It will be a small community... I think they are 'too late' and the concept is not revolutionary enough for audiophiles and too expensive for the 'general public' that will prefer a smaller player that also can do other tricks (video, pictures, internet etc).
Sure they will sell a lot of players and sell some music but the player isn't 'better' than other players like the FiiO X3, X5, Ibasso DX50 etc and audiophiles will most likely go for A&K and Hifiman or other high-end players instead.
Lets see how big it will become. I am certainly not going to buy it and would rather buy the FiiO X5 for the same price. The simplicity of the Pono is appealing to me though.
While playing around with music I am finding that a LOT of recordings do not have a very high sound quality. On good headphones it is apparent that sound quality is not the main concern for many recordings but the few good ones out there do sound great.
I hope this is where the Pono concept (the recording/mastering bit, not the player) can make a change in awareness of mastering/recording engineers to try a little harder.
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Rabbit
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Pono
Apr 18, 2014 6:47:45 GMT
Post by Rabbit on Apr 18, 2014 6:47:45 GMT
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matt
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Pono
Oct 28, 2014 7:15:04 GMT
Post by matt on Oct 28, 2014 7:15:04 GMT
It's too expensive.
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solderdude
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Pono
Oct 28, 2014 8:25:02 GMT
Post by solderdude on Oct 28, 2014 8:25:02 GMT
Yes, $400.- will buy you other players that can do hires as well. A cheap alternative will be the $ 130.- FiiO X1 for instance or X3 or ibasso X50 or HM-700 but these already are closer to the $400.- mark.
Of course if you really like the design and colours there aren't that many alternatives. It is part of a 'system' though that lets you buy and download Pono offered recordings.
The other players won't offer this functionality.
Other 'higher end' players are generally much more expensive though. $ 2500.- (no typo there) will buy you an AK-240. Personally I don't think it will sound that different from the Pono or X1 for that matter, but that is just to my older and crappy ears. YEMV (your ears may vary)
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