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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 22, 2017 21:32:34 GMT
40c!?! Can't imagine keeping my cool on in that never mind a set of closed, pleather-padded phones. ;-) Waterphones: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterphone would be my musical cooling choice. Ice-chilled waterphone, of course.
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 18, 2017 23:24:14 GMT
Sorry to hear you're hearing cranial test tones, Frans. Just more evidence that youth is wasted on the young. ;-)
My parents and siblings have suffered from tinnitus and I'm starting to get it too. I like to consider it my auditory bias signal. Fortunately, so far, it's been at a low perceptual value so I can 'bias' it out. However, it is always present with an eery left-right stereo effect that is neither in my head or out of it, existing in a soundstage dimension of unknown origin.
OUCH! Took the audionotch test and didn't notice the volume on my SS amp was turned up. Ouch! A good tube headamp wouldn't hurt like that, right? ;-) Not sure of the exact frequency for me, but my sinuses are cleaned out and any ear wax deposits melted away. Thanks, internet! LOL!
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 17, 2017 7:40:50 GMT
Agree, Ian, about many musicians tolerating abominable sound quality. Possibly because they are so far inside the music that mere auditory perception is a trifle. ;-) I'm the exception - as an acoustic musician (who agonizes over instruments/strings/tone from technique etc) - I can't tolerate crappy sound. Especially monitor sound. Used to hate playing the festival circuits because they wouldn't allow me to setup my tri-amped studio monitor setup - small powered studio monitors on stands and a sub. And my mixer. And my eq. And other stuff in the rack. 1 hour soundchecks for 45 minute performances is an ask too far.
If the sound was bad so was my playing - or rather my overplaying. LOL! Sadly, never got on well with in-ear monitors either. Bandmates didn't like my 'isolation', which I loved, who needs timbale poisoning ever night? And because, it was an elaborate sub mix to setup. As well worried about someone tweaking a knob and instant temporary or longer deafness. Plus accidentally pulling my head off at the end of the set walking off stage. ;-)
Conversely, with good open full-sized phones I can enjoy almost as good a soundstage as with speakers. Maybe I have spacial synesthesia. Or, just an active auditory imagination. With a good recording with some room ambiance I can zen-listen into the mix and voila! The headstage is out of my head - maybe only a foot or so, but still can perceive front-to-back depth, that's out front. Sort of like tilt shift photos. The objects are smaller sure, but the sense of space is still present. And the detail from good phones...oh my. However, if I focus on the soundstage or it's just a bad recording, the imaginary sound space collapses to the band-in-the-head mode. It's a subtle thing - can't try to perceive a out-of-head soundstage. It's a process of allowing it to spread wide and deep into my awareness. It's almost like an out-of-body experience, but my crude explanation is more of an out-of-my-mind one. I studied psycho-acoustics at university and my motto was, 'putting the psycho into acoustics' ;-)
I've mixed on phones for years with good results when the canon states that you can't get a good mix on phones. Although there's more examples of bad mixes made on speakers than good. So there's that. And since the Appletic iPoddish Revolution, more people listen on phones - mainly terrible horrible ones - than on speakers. Instead of these endless re-re-re-releases of re-re-remastered classics, why don't they (the Recording Industry), release headphone tweaked mixes as well as speaker mixes? The phone mixes would not require the ear-numbing, soul-crushing make everything-louder-than-everything-else brickwall limited semi-square waving racket. Neither would the speaker mixes, but human nature is involved in the recording arts so...
Digital encoding promised so much for music - less noise, less flutter, less rumble, less distortion with vast dynamic range. Instead it led to the Great Volume Wars, which no one won.
/rant
Thanks for letting me vent. Didn't hear that coming.
Back on topic. Thanks, Frans, for your excellent analysis of Tyll's somewhat dubious measurement process. Dummy head recordings. Dummy head measurements. And consumed by dummy consumers on the internet. We just about have it all. ;-)
Jim
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 12, 2017 22:50:31 GMT
Nope didn't envison that. I did expect a lot of exotic tubes that would be used using adapters though. A problem with tubes is that there is no single (or combination) of certain parameters that quarantees a certain sound. Yes, you can calculate gain and even frequency response etc but it is hard to predict how much 2nd harmonics the tube will generate under certain conditions. No clear correlation to perceived SQ and specs exist so hard to say what one will have to be looking for in tubes. You could even use pentodes (in triode config) using adapters etc. This way one could add lots more suited tubes when you have an adapter that accomodates for 2 pentodes for instance. The fun part of the Ember (and other G1217 amps) is the very wide range of currents and heaters that can be used. How the sound will turn out is partly science and partly subjective. Pentodes? Adapters? Can we call Jeremy? Experimentation is a big part of the appeal of tube rolling for me - tweaking to suit our own personal taste. Headphone listening for pleasure only needs to please one set of ears. And the eager ears of some internet forums. ;-)
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 12, 2017 22:41:01 GMT
At least you were listening to vintage hiss. It's much more pleasing than modern 21st century hiss. LOL!
As string instrument player, I know too well the sounds of deteriorating strings. And the brief sweet hours after break-in of optimum tone. I hope to approach tube rolling with a zen-like appreciation of the impermanence of all things. Especially my bank balance. ;-)
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 11, 2017 23:22:40 GMT
The 6sn7 tubes require 600ma of heater current. All the current G1217 amps can provide that - except the Horizon III - needs the supercharger to exceed 500ma. Could be on the edge for the earlier G1217 amps...but a (tube) life not lived on the edge is a waste of electrons. At least that's what the exotic tube dealers on the internet say. :-)
From my recent explorations on the various Ember threads, the G1217 6SN7 socket adapter is a gateway drug to even more exotic rolling - Jeremy told me that's a good thing. Until you check the price on matched pairs of vintage 6J5s. ;-)
Frans, when you designed Sunrise/Ember did you envision 70+ year old twin tower coke bottle RF receivers towering menacingly from behind chicken-wire faraday cages on your sweet compact amps?
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 9, 2017 7:36:01 GMT
Whoah! Are you saying not to roll weird tubes in a G1217 amp?!! I'm telling Jeremy! LOL!
Thanks for the info, Frans. Jeremy is setting me up with a 'starter' kit tube buffet - with a couple weird ones. He hasn't helped solve my problem of which G1217 amp will be the host tho. Still waffling between Sunrise and Solstice. Manual vs Auto. Hot vs Warm. Good vs Evil. No, wait. They're both great! Right?
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 9, 2017 3:26:38 GMT
the 6N26P has completely different pinning than the 'normal' dual triodes. This one cannot be used alas. Frans, what about the E80CC / 6085? Can it play in the G1217 gallery? 'It's Alive' has praised its virtues in his Ember. While I keep my Solstice or Sunrise dilemma oscillating, why not begin my NOS tube dithering odyssey as well. ;-)
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 7, 2017 9:34:11 GMT
If you have ALSO Polaris in mind for the future I would actually go for Sunrise (class A). It has a different topology than Polaris and perhaps that way you get slightly different taste of sound signature with the combo. I love my ember with HD650 and HE400i...never passed 11 o clock with the volpot. That's sort of what I'm thinking...could go the summer/winter G1217 seasonal amping combo: Summer Solstice and then when Winter arrives fire up the Class A heaters with either a Sunrise or Horizon. That way I can experience the different topologies with my own ears and gear. If I can't tell a difference between them, then I'll just get a Polaris and change my user name to the 'Jfet Gourmet'. ;-) Or could just go all-season amp and get the Ember. For such a small outfit, G1217 sure offers a lot of choices! I like choice. Except when I have to make them one at a time.
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 7, 2017 2:50:21 GMT
That's encouraging. Have you played in the OPAMP swap swamp yet? I'd be terribly tempted to spend way too much money on some discrete opamps for unknown benefits. I'm familiar with the $$$ discrete opamps used in many $$$ mic preamps - some sound very, very good. In mic preamps. The temptation to opamp roll could negatively affect my tube buying spree. ;-) I have not rolled opamps yet. Jeremy kitted such a good sounding chip, I've not felt the need to change. My impression is, tubes will likely make the bigger difference, but I could very well be mistaken. I've swapped a few tubes because I own tube guitar amps, so already had some laying around. Besides, I'm notoriously cheap! Tubes better make a bigger difference or the whole G1217 marketing plan is doomed! LOL! According to Frans, over at the Polaris thread, the solid state outputs have very little effect on the tone color buffet. They provide no gain, so there can be no pain, right? ;-) While I'm a cheapskate too, I can get obsessed with chasing the law of diminishing returns until I crash into the law of supply and demand. As I mentioned in my initial post, I'm a recovering audiophile - I have to be careful about chasing sonic apparitions with thousand dollar magic wands and hundred dollar opamps. Fortunately some of my work does involve tracking sonic anomalies...but that's mainly an audio janitor position. ;-) What tubes have you swapped? And what phones do you use in the Starlight?
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 7, 2017 0:30:26 GMT
Thanks, Mr MarvelTone. I've read some of your books. ;-) I like to tinker, but usually when there's no need to. How often after the initial roll-in period do you need to re-bias? Once dialed in, I've never had to re-bias... yet. Providing the tubes are stable, the amp is rock-solid, both spec-wise and build-wise. Judging by the power curve, the Starlight almost seems to be tailored towards AKG, Fostex, and Grado cans. Frans could tell you how it would fare with the higher impedance HD650. He's the expert! That's encouraging. Have you played in the OPAMP swap swamp yet? I'd be terribly tempted to spend way too much money on some discrete opamps for unknown benefits. I'm familiar with the $$$ discrete opamps used in many $$$ mic preamps - some sound very, very good. In mic preamps. The temptation to opamp roll could negatively affect my tube buying spree. ;-)
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 6, 2017 23:54:42 GMT
To me it is more of a feature difference and maximum available output current question. Some people feel the Sunrise sounds better. The Solstice (and Styarlight) stays cool (except the tube) where the Sunrise get's quite hot. cats do like the heat don't they.. one of ours loves to sunbathe behind a window. Oh...to be you...not worried by what 'some' feel. LOL! Just read the "DANGER! Extreme Temperatures!" section in the Sunrise manual. 70c is pretty hot, even for cool cats. Looking like the Solstice will be my summer amp. Just have to avoid 'some' people on the internet until winter when a hot new Horizon could arrive on my snowy porch. Thanks again for your patient responses to my near endless questions.
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 6, 2017 6:04:50 GMT
Thanks, Frans!
I'm on the wet coast of Canada, which is close to the E.U. At least emotionally. ;-)
Want to make the 650 sing. Not so worried about the DF - stage whisper is fine.
My plan is to get the Polaris later for another workstation where the 240DF or 598 could be used. But, could change to a Starlight if I get hooked on rolling. Would need to be low radiated heat tho - already have hot overclocked workstations heating up my space. ;-)
Between the Sunrise's Class A output vs the Solstices 551s is one a better match for the 650? Or is it just a feature difference - auto vs manual bias? Or should I just let the cats pick the 20W one they can cozy up on. With the optional G1217 cat-over-tube lounger.
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 6, 2017 4:39:17 GMT
Welcome to the forum! I can't speak for the other amps, but I have the Starlight (Love it!), and biasing is actually very easy. If you like to tinker, you'll have no problems with that extra step when rolling tubes. Thanks, Mr MarvelTone. I've read some of your books. ;-) I like to tinker, but usually when there's no need to. How often after the initial roll-in period do you need to re-bias?
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 6, 2017 3:58:11 GMT
The Sunrise which many on the net claim drives the 650s just fine and it's cheaper. But, then what if my trusty 20+ year old AKGs could sing again on the Horizon. Also it has the 44V plate rather than the 22V of the other amps. Does the higher plate voltage have any audible benefit other than the smug ear-peen? And then if I go Horizon, why not supercharge it for only a little extra charge. Yes, the higher plate voltage does make a difference. Not so much at smaller output levels but when the music plays louder the higher plate voltage amps will remain cleaner sounding as there simply is less distortion. This could be an issue with the K240DF when you want to make it sing and boost the lower bass tones for some more grunt. Less so with the HD650 but when you want it to keep sounding smooth and clean in higher levels there is some merit in higher voltage amps. So for HD650 and K240DF a Horizon could be the best decision (when taking budget into account) Sunrise is already 'enough' for the HD650 and will drive the K240DF reasonably well but possibly not make it thump and sing. You simply need more voltage for this rare one. It can provide just enough current to drive all headphones you have and can drive the HD650 and K240 with ease. It is class-A and manual bias/heater select. When the HD650 and K240DF are the main 'workhorses' this might be your choice. It will have enough power to drive the other headphones and just enough for the T20. Only the original Horizon needs a Supercharger fitted to be able to use high heater current tubes. The current Horizon doesn't need it. It can already drive those tubes. The other headphones (including the HD650) should play well on the Sunrise, Solstice and Starlight. The Starlight and Sunrise take some time and effort when roling tubes cause ... manual bias. The Solstice does this automatically but you still need to set the tube voltage properly. When the K240DF must sing the Horizon would be needed. When it is of lesser importance the Sunrise and Starlight are good options as well as the Solstice when rolling tubes more often. The starlight should be fitted with 2 opamps per channel in this case just to have enough current available. Asked the Jeremy about the new Frans' generous free supercharger upgrade for the Horizon. He said it's not free in the current Horizon. And the supercharger seems to be de rigueur for more rolling options. That brings Sunrise and Solstice back to the bargaining table. How loud a level would the 650 be playing before the lower plate voltage becomes less clean? >100dB? >106dB? My ears aren't low distortion above 102dB. My threshold of pain is lower than the average 110dB. I plan on getting a Polaris eventually and could use it to make the 240DFs sing. Or cry. ;-) If my incredible powers of shopping redeductionism have reduced the choice to the Sunrise or Solstice, then only need to determine whether the Class A mosfet in the Sunrise sounds better/different than the 551 in Solstice using the ears of the internet to hear with my eyes. How hard can that be? ;-) Also a little confused about the THD spec between the two (Not that a single number of merit captures the character). The reportedly smoother sounding Sunrise with its no-feedback Class A output stage has less distortion, THD: > 0.013% (dependent on tube) vs the Solstice with a quoted THD: > 0.10% (dependent on tube). Is that a typo in the specs? Pragmatically, how big an effect on the sound does the output stage have? Isn't it just a current follower, the 'proper' voltage work being done in a sealed glass tube? Oh..wait...enough difference to offer two models at the same price. Not getting out of this buyer's dilemma with basic rationalization skills. ;-) Thanks!
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