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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 13, 2017 23:36:09 GMT
Agree. The 12AU7 is a great starting point - readily available and decently linear. Prefer the 5963 & 5814 JAN versions of the 12AU7 to the usual mid-priced vintage 12AU7s. However, haven't found a 12AU7 (or any miniature) that conveys the lush open soundstage of a good 6SN7/12SN7. That open spaciousness just feels so right to me on headphones. The 6SN7 was the tube the 12AU7 was meant to replace (similar characteristics - but with lower current and linearity) in the post-war cost-cutting tube market. Close, but not close enough for my tube-rolling pleasure. The 6CG7 was meant to be a direct equivalent of the 6SN7GT - 6SN7 plates in a tinnier glass. Have found the better 6CG7s are closely equivalent to an average 6SN7GTA. Not close to the great 6SN7s from the 40s to my jaded, yet delicate ears.
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 11, 2017 21:16:38 GMT
Brrrr. Some nice atmospheric shots, Ian. Good to see your cameraman shot mainly from the better part of valour and glass
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 11, 2017 7:09:06 GMT
Speaking of 5692’s. I was digging around in the chest I store my power amp tubes in and found several CBS/Hytron 1958 JAN-CHY-5692 brown base tubes. I swapped them out a few years ago because one of the six went bad. Anyway, got out my 6SN7 adaptor and plopped it in the Horizon. It’s not fully warmed up, but already they are great on female vocals. More later. Edit: Found a spare I never used. It’s NOS! Sounds very nice in the Horizon III. DSOTM is sounding as it should. Edit: Tried a different tube. Unlistenable. Static. You can’t win them all. Oh....CBS/Hytron 5692...fancy! ;-) That's a taste I want to taste at some point. After I've gorged my ears on a Bendix 2C50.
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 11, 2017 6:59:49 GMT
So what’s a reasonable price on a grey glass 1940’s RCA? Are we talking NOS or used tests ANOS? $30-$40 for ANOS - $50-60 for NOS are good prices.
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 10, 2017 0:51:28 GMT
Bad Boys can be very good!
Don't give up the search for a grey glass RCA from the 40s tho - worth the hunt. As is a black glass National Union.
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 6, 2017 1:38:05 GMT
Did you get it yet? Did you get it yet? Just got a cheap(ish) VT-231 Sylvania that took 2 months to arrive. Sadly, it sounds mushy and a bit hissy. Caveat eBay. LOL!
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 5, 2017 0:43:32 GMT
Smart thing to do indeed. The 6XX are very revealing of amp/tube changes. As is having a grey glass RCA ready to go when the 6XX phones arrive. Sold. PM me when it arrives.
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 4, 2017 22:01:19 GMT
I might be interested in your 12SN7 and 12SX7 if the flogging is only skin-deep. ;-) A 1940s grey glass RCA 6SN7 is a wonderful choice - great for taming bright, dimensionally-challenged recordings. Still very affordable - VT-231s...not so much. You could mention the microphonics - in case the prospective purchaser plans to use the tubes in a preamp with a vinyl speaker rig. Of course a vinyl-head, by definition is a masochist, so might even be an incentive. I let my wife listen to the headphone rig - even if she hates phones because they mess with the hair - and she really likes the sound and the glowing bits. LOL! And since I'm a recovering audiophile having purged the big speaker rig/tube amps/TT/MC cartridges - my headphone setup is a 'cute' cheap hobby by comparison. Possibly best to purchase more tubes from one good dealer at strategic intervals.
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 4, 2017 10:06:24 GMT
Sorry, I'm late to the 12SN7/12SX7/6SN7 party. Definitely my fav tube party. I have a few 12SX7s and many 12SN7s - and a G1217 Solstice which can supply a true 12V heater output with a jumper change. Which is how normally I use it. However, in the interests of sonic science and plain curiosity, I just ran a couple 12SX7s and 12SN7s with the jumpers in the normal 6V position as if it was a 6SN7. And all the tubes worked. One sounded pretty good - a GE 12SN7, however, all were noisier at 6V compared to 12V and didn't sound as good at 6V as at their native 12V heater voltage. From this single data point, we can conclude that while the 12V versions of 6SN7s will work at 6V, they won't work as well. Although usually pricier than the 12V brethren, there are many great 6SN7 tubes. For headphone listening I find the open spacious presentation of a good 6SN7 preferable to the smaller, more constricted presentation of the children's miniature tubes. For most of my listening I prefer 6SN7/12SN7s to the little noval tubes, even the E80CC - one of my fav 9pinners. In my chain, Presonus FSM SPDIF > Mimby > Solstice > 650s, the Tungsram E80CC is very good - on a par with the best 6CG7/6FQ7s. (6CG7 is the same 6SN7 plate design squished into a smaller tube - for cost-cutting reasons, not better audio behavior from what I hear and have read.) Out of the 6CG7/6FQ7 I've tried so far, a NOS 1950s Westinghouse and a 60s GE JAN are good 6SN7 step-children. The former preserves most of the addictive spaciousness of a good 6SN7 with excellent details and the GE has great clarity, but more forward presentation with a little less spaciousness. Haven't yet found a 6CG7/6FQ7 that bests a good 6SN7/12SN7 overall - except for marginally lower noise and letting the LED glow shine through. So far much prefer the 6CG7/6FQ7 to 12BH7A - which are too up front and harsh for my delicate sensibilities. LOL! I have one NOS RCA 12SX7 that is exceptional - the clarity and detail of a top-tier 6DJ8 with the relaxed, open 6SN7 presentation. However, the differences between a $6 NOS Canadian GE 12SN7 and a $35 GE 12SX7 weren't worth the cost - especially since my best example of the $6 12SN7 is quieter and little more detailed than the GE 12SX7. One thing I've learned with these 60+ year old tubes - some have aged better on the shelf than others - not to mention the differences between factories and production runs. Many used 6SN7s can suffer from microphonics - doesn't bother me too much for headphone use tho. And with the larger RF gathering plates can be more sensitive to modern RF devices in the vicinity. A simple RF modesty screen can keep those bad waves out tho. ;-) In my experience, the 12SX7 designation doesn't guarantee elevated performance - each tube needs to be heard in-circuit and some have greater synergy than others. And that is part of the fun of tube rolling. Discovery and happy surprises. Or slightly less happy ones. The other fun part is selecting a tube to suit the listening session mood. And the 6SN7 family has so many unique flavours - to me a larger variety of differences than the 12AU7 or 6DJ8 types and usually at lower costs since the better 9pins are priced to match audiophile-infatuation-inflation. The 9pin genre seems to me to be about finding the ultimate 'sound' usually at an ultimate price. Not so much about enjoying the tube rolling journey as reaching the audio-nirvana destination. For me, savoring the journey is the more satisfying destination. Want darker, smoother, wider? Grey glass RCA from the 1940s or NU Black glass. More bass and depth? Sylvania 6SN7GT from the 40s or a '52-'53 Bad Boy. Feeling airy? Tung-sol Mouse Ears or Canadian GE short base/tall glass. Lush transparency? Sylvania VT-231. Rich and vibrant with a juicy 3D midrange? Tung-Sol round plate from the late 40s or Brimar round plate. And on and on in other enjoyably audible ways. Careful with the round plate habit tho - it can be pricey. Although with some searching and patience, a pair of Sylvania round plate 6P5s for $30-$40 and an adapter can come close to a good $200+ TS RP 6SN7 - with a wider soundstage perhaps compensating for losing a little juiciness. The great value of the G1217 amps is not just their great design, build quality and value. Instead of just passive listening with my previous solid state amps - swapping tubes has altered the process of listening to a more active enjoyment of the music and sonic characteristics. Without the obsessive audiophiliac neurosis side effects. I'm a better, active listener now. Hoping if I swap enough tubes, I'll become a better person - just like Jeremy said I would. G1217 hybrid amps are so much more fun than a SS amp, even far more costly ones, that can only aspire to one sound - boring. And that concludes my 6SN7/12SN7 party rant! Thanks for letting me wax on and on....
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Post by lobalwarming on Dec 2, 2017 22:35:52 GMT
The 880 sounds intriguing...so I visited the Edifier link Nate posted. Sadly, it seems I don't qualify to purchase such a uniquely targeted model as they state: I'm neither a millennial or part of community that enjoys the latest trends since I live in a rural coastal village that probably needs another decade or so to accept it's the 21st century already - a community that only gets exited about the latest chainsaw technology anyhow. Although, in another section of syrupy marketing drivel they state: I might be able to purchase using the 'general user' exemption. However, in this era of Big Data and consumer tracking minutia, their concern with my 'holistic experience' is very concerning. The phones could be very good, but the tone of their copy is creepy: Again, I live in a rural coastal village, 'fun under currents' here can kill you while drowning in a sea of enjoyable music and frigid salt water. Maybe if everyone at DIYaudioheaven buys a pair, Edifier can afford to hire copywriters that can actually describe a product a clear informative manner.
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Post by lobalwarming on Nov 12, 2017 2:22:00 GMT
What the word on those "starving student" amps? There is/was one on HF for $40 sans tubes (12au7) and ps. It's a Pete Millet DIY design: www.pmillett.com/starving.htm
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Post by lobalwarming on Nov 12, 2017 2:15:36 GMT
I'll PM you the secret NOS 189 source. Must keep it secret until at least until you and I have ample lifetime supplies. ;-)
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Post by lobalwarming on Nov 11, 2017 22:31:58 GMT
An equivalent (bravo v2) is currently running $100 on Amazon.ca. The P1 was listing for ~$80 on ebay for the non-auction listing when I got it. TBH, I placed a bid on a whim, totally not expecting to win. Turns out I was the only bidder. I seriously doubt I'd pay the full retail for either versions, there's plenty of other (probably better) options out there for not much more money if you consider the used market. I have seen some good prices for used Vali2s, but the sellers never want to ship to Canada - ATTENTION AMERICAN AUDIOPHILES: We are your friends, and want your used gear!! Like I mentioned earlier, I'm a total rookie regarding tubes. I have no idea what I want, I just do what the folks in the forums tell me Seriously, out of the things you mentioned before, I could go for space and detail. Most of my gear is leaning on the warm side to begin with, so I don't think I wanna go much warmer (except climate wise, winter arrived fast and unannounced this year). One thing I wouldn't mind checking out is finding the tubey-ist sounding tube available (or does that clash with "not much warmer"). Since OTL amp are bad hoodoo when pairing with planars (going by what the folks on the forums say) I'd like to see how close I can get a hybrid sounding to full glass - just out of curiousity. BTW, I stole that "regret" comment from a Butthole Surfers song. I really wouldn't recommend using it as an excuse if you get in trouble with your significant other In my tubular experience, the 6SN7 family is where space gets spacious...but for detail the ECC189 is great. And will work in the P1. In the Solstice it sounds exquisitely detailed. I've asked Frans before by studying the datasheets if tube X will sound better than tube Y in the Solstice. His answer was...it depends. Depends on too many factors that the data sheet can't reveal. The fun in tube rolling in these little low voltage G1217 gems is in the discovery. Tracking down obscure possibly great sounding tubes and discovering new flavours that improve (or not) one's own system is a big part of the appeal. There is no guarantee that the most revered tube will be the 'it' that you seek. Others can guide you - if you know their tastes - headphone audio is a personal journey. You only have to please your own tastes, no one else's taste can replace your own. Even if the internet desperately wants to. For me, the problem with OTL tube amps is twofold - three if cost is included. One, without an output transformer, most OTL tube designs struggle to generate enough current to drive low impedance phones because the tube amp's output impedance is often as high or higher than the phones. In the tube speaker amp world, OTL designs are pretty much reserved for direct-driving electrostatics - Futterman designs excluded. Hence why most tube speaker amps use output transformers. Can't fight city hall and physics. Driving 300ohm+ phones is where OTL makes sense and can sound great - like the BH Crack. If you enjoy listening to low impedance planars, tube OTL amp will not likely enhance the enjoyment. Hybrid amp is the better low cost option. Some say transformers are bad. But they aren't. They're actually really good, except to make really good ones is really hard. When I was in the studio, I enjoyed some good iron in the mic signal path - with $2k per channel mic pres. Even with headphone amps, good output transformers cost serious money - hence the good transformer output amps are $1K+. OTL became the cheap stepsister of tube output amps - not so much a design win as an economic one. Two....most of the tube magic / sonic differences happen in the input/driver stage. The output stage contributes 20-30% or less depending on the design. It's a diminishing return thing. No budget or home thermal limits, fill the room with glowing orbs of sound. Three. Cost vs satisfaction. I'm a recovering audiophile. I've built up all tube Audio Research / CJ rigs that cost more to re-tube than buying every G1217 amp. Twice. Spending tens of thousands for an audio playback system is no guarantee of satisfaction. IME, it's the opposite. Instead of enjoying the music, more time is spent on worrying about what is still missing than what is heard. For my OCD predilections hi-end audio is a purgatory padded in temptation, promising auditory nirvana but filled with soul-sucking neurosis. Now...back on topic. Tube warmth is not a term that ever made any sense to me. The audio canon states when a tube generates more 2nd order distortion it is said to sound warmer. Yet, because harmonic distortion occurs above the fundamental the added harmonics are higher in frequency. Maybe thicker is a better term. Lots of lower order harmonic distortion can actually sound thinner. Higher order distortion sounds harsh - it's where over-driven solid state shines. LOL! Where warmth as a term makes sense to me is when the interaction of the tube in the circuit causes an early high frequency rolloff. Less highs can be perceived as warmer. Or just dull. Like my current dissertation.
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Post by lobalwarming on Nov 11, 2017 1:55:54 GMT
"After all, its better to regret something you have done than something you haven't"Oh that is an awesome and highly dangerous axiom to use in the headphone hobby. Didn't know it was a $35 headphone amp. That is cheap! Need to hit rewind and get some $0.50 Amperex tubes from 1979. The NOS Tele ECC189 would be my only suggestion since it's less than 50% the cost of the amp and is the best sub $15 miniature tube I've heard. You didn't elaborate on what you hope/expect to hear from tube rolling. Good luck on your bargain hunting expedition. Too soon for a Winter Solstice sale tho.
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Post by lobalwarming on Nov 10, 2017 21:07:11 GMT
High quality closed phone is an auditory oxymoron for me. But, Frans says the new closed Aeon doesn't suffer from closed cup disease, just over-priced mania. So maybe there's a chance. I've used so many closed phones in the studio and even the uber expensive Sony have been disappointing. I seem to be sensitive to low Q resonances or something. Or I breathe through my ears. Are you sure the driver is dead in the HP150s? They're known for iffy cable connections. Nexus Intl is the Canadian distributor for soundmagic. Have you contacted them? www.nexusintl.ca/support/If you want a set of closed phones just for flavour rather than need, you could spend less than $100 on one of the Superlux bass canon variants. Other than isolation, closed phones can best open phones with a big bottom. Everywhere else open phones sound...well...so much more open. Maybe Frans is saying the P1 can't supply the .6A the 6SN7 requires. That's unfortunate, The 6CG7 is the same specs as a 6SN7 in a miniature 9pin bottle - but requires .6A like its full bodied brother. The 12BH7 is also a .6A tube. It could be the P1 is limited to supplying < .5A, which means you have to stay in the 12AU7/6DJ8 family. I quite like the black plate RCA 5963 from the 50s. It's a more rugged version of the 12AU7, with a more rugged presentation with more detail - not as laid back as most RCA 12AU7s. A really sweet 6DJ8 alternate for <$15 is a NOS Tele ECC189. Great details, clarity, low noise, balanced and smooth - not ashamed to compare to the $100+ hipster 6DJ8s. Prefer it to the Amperex and Valvo 6DJ8s I've used in the Solstice. The ECC86/6GM8 is another option, but the audio elite have driven NOS prices just slightly south of the nosebleed section. I haven't found any low current miniature tube that has the big rich open spacious presentation of the better 6SN7/12SN7 tubes. Especially the older round plate variants in 12V. In the low cost amp realm, only Solstice can use those. It is the cheapskate's tube rolling dream machine. What sonic flavours do you favour in tube rolling? More warmth, more detail, more space, richer mids? All of the above?
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