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Post by Curious on May 20, 2014 2:39:48 GMT
Hey...noob here with a couple of questions.
After a lot of research I purchased a Yulong D100, which I use as a DAC (duh) and as a headphone amplifier.
I am thinking of getting a better amp and I've narrowed it down to the Ember or the Lyr. From what I've read, both are great amps. I'm leaning towards the Ember because the Lyr seems to run very hot and I don't have an air conditioner in my house. With the summer fast approaching, the last thing I need is an amp that doubles as a heater.
Will I hear a improvement in sound quality over the D100? I ask this because I am not able to hear that much of a difference between my old Fiio E7 and my new D100. Maybe my ears are just not that good, or perhaps the D100 is not that great of an amp (many reviews claim that it was very capable).
I guess I'm asking because I have read that two amps will not sound too different from each other as long as they are both well designed. If this is true, and assuming that both the D100 and the Ember are well designed amps, then perhaps I will just be wasting my time looking for something better than the D100 at the under $1000 price range.
My headphones are a Sony MDR-MA900 and a Beyerdynamic T1.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on May 20, 2014 4:58:57 GMT
I guess that it depends on what you are expecting to hear from an amp. An amp shouldn't really change the 'sound' or 'timbre' of the source too much.
It should provide power so that on peaks in music, which on a good recording, should be large, the amp section doesn't run out of steam so peaks stop sounding clipped. In other words, the amp should provide you with more available power to deliver those peaks fully.
In the real world though, many recordings are compressed to the point of not really having good dynamic range, so in effect, there are no big peaks recorded!!
So, on a really good recording you should get a better dynamic range. This is often more apparent in the bass where peaks can be properly delivered and your perception of that may well be a more solid sounding bass in particular.
Given that the Ember is a tube amp, it also tends to sound quite 'rich' since the tubes also deliver a lot of harmonics associated with tubes. Some call this 'distortion' but it's a 'nice' distortion since it depends which harmonics are stronger.
The Ember has masses of power and these days, I use little else since it's so configurable.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on May 20, 2014 4:59:28 GMT
The Yulong has a 'standard' amplifier circuit and can deliver: 900mW @ 32Ω and 130mW @ 300Ω
It is a standard (but good) opamp (OPA2134) + transistor output circuit.
The FiiO E7 circuit is also a 'standard' circuit and can deliver 220mW @ 32Ω and 23mW @ 300Ω
That may be a bit low to reproduce dynamic sound on the T1 but will do at 'evening' listening levels.
When you do not hear much difference between the amps (there won't be tonally) but the Yulong sounds a bit better (more dynamic) on higher listening levels on the T1 then you have reached the max output voltage the E7 can reach. The Yulong is better in that aspect.
The MDR-MA900 is a 'different' headphone than most others in that it has an unusual low impedance of just over 10Ω.
Some amplifiers may struggle with this impedance, the D100 and E7 probably do not.
The output resistance of the amps is fixed and most likely below 5Ω.
The Ember can provide 1000mW @ 32Ω and 700mW @ 300Ω and can deliver around 400mW @ 10Ω
It is primarily designed to drive even the difficult headphones (like HE-6) and has selectable output resistance which most other amps do not have and can 'change' the sound for the better or worse (depends on the headphone).
It is NOT a tone control of sorts though.
The other 2 amps are solid state and the Ember is a tube amp where it is extremely easy to change the tubes.
So the value of the Ember is in the selectable output resistance and easily interchangeable tubes (and NO heat).
The resistance selection is likely change the sonic signature and you will never have to be afraid to run out of steam with any headphone.
On low R output setting and level matched at normal (and probably also higher) listening levels you are most likely not going to hear differences but the higher R setting may improve the T1 and shave some of the 'edge' off.
The A1 amplifier has 100Ω output R, the Ember can switch between near 0 Ohm, 33 Ohm and 120Ω, the 120Ω setiing is ideal for the T1.
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Post by Curious on May 21, 2014 0:53:23 GMT
The Yulong has a 'standard' amplifier circuit and can deliver: 900mW @ 32Ω and 130mW @ 300Ω It is a standard (but good) opamp (OPA2134) + transistor output circuit. The FiiO E7 circuit is also a 'standard' circuit and can deliver 220mW @ 32Ω and 23mW @ 300Ω That may be a bit low to reproduce dynamic sound on the T1 but will do at 'evening' listening levels. When you do not hear much difference between the amps (there won't be tonally) but the Yulong sounds a bit better (more dynamic) on higher listening levels on the T1 then you have reached the max output voltage the E7 can reach. The Yulong is better in that aspect. The MDR-MA900 is a 'different' headphone than most others in that it has an unusual low impedance of just over 10Ω. Some amplifiers may struggle with this impedance, the D100 and E7 probably do not. The output resistance of the amps is fixed and most likely below 5Ω. The Ember can provide 1000mW @ 32Ω and 700mW @ 300Ω and can deliver around 400mW @ 10Ω It is primarily designed to drive even the difficult headphones (like HE-6) and has selectable output resistance which most other amps do not have and can 'change' the sound for the better or worse (depends on the headphone). It is NOT a tone control of sorts though. The other 2 amps are solid state and the Ember is a tube amp where it is extremely easy to change the tubes. So the value of the Ember is in the selectable output resistance and easily interchangeable tubes (and NO heat). The resistance selection is likely change the sonic signature and you will never have to be afraid to run out of steam with any headphone. On low R output setting and level matched at normal (and probably also higher) listening levels you are most likely not going to hear differences but the higher R setting may improve the T1 and shave some of the 'edge' off. The A1 amplifier has 100Ω output R, the Ember can switch between near 0 Ohm, 33 Ohm and 120Ω, the 120Ω setiing is ideal for the T1. Thanks for the fast response, guys. Well this seem to explain some of my confusion. Most of my listening is done at lower volume, so this might be why I do not hear a lot of difference between the D100 and the little Fiio. I might also not be able to detect a difference between the D100 and the Ember (at lower listening levels), but changing the sound via a tube is intriguing. So it seems that there will not be a night and day difference between two well designed amps, except for power output and perhaps changing the sound by using tubes. So why do people spend thousands of dollars of solid state amps? Will there be a audible difference at those levels (beyond the power those amps might be able to generate)? |
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on May 21, 2014 4:39:20 GMT
So it seems that there will not be a night and day difference between two well designed amps, except for power output and perhaps changing the sound by using tubes. So why do people spend thousands of dollars of solid state amps? Will there be a audible difference at those levels (beyond the power those amps might be able to generate)? A difference between the solid state amps and the Ember will be the 'character' of the used tube (some are rolled off in the lows and or highs in the audible range) and some of them add harmonics at higher levels (the T1 needs a higher voltage) which could make it sound 'fuller'. The biggest difference between the Ember and other amps is the possibility of changing the output resistance. The T1 seems to be designed to be driven from a high output resistance amplifier which both SS are not but the Ember can be set to that position by easily accessible jumpers. The reason people pay thousands on any amp could be: Pride of ownership. People have money to burn and don't know what else to do with it. Have something to boast about. Craftsmanship of the brand The choice of 'camp' (subjectivists or objectivists) one chooses or is forced to reside in The impressive looks (to match that of their uber expensive turntables) The fact that others cannot afford them and they have something almost unique. The idea that more expensive equals better quality The 'knowledge' rare components have been used (with unobtanium) The fact that others say it sounds heavenly. The FR or THD could be different Features the design has (crossfeed for example) The fact that their hearing is superior to those of others and can actually hear things the rest of us can't. (The fact that their wives and or some friends can easily hear it too is a bit suspect though) The fact that they actually DO sound better but are unable to 'measure' it (this is the most used argument) Placebo takes over at these price/looks level. I haven't figured it out yet, could be a combination of the things mentioned above or things I haven't thought about. IMO blind tests are telling me it doesn't have to cost that much to reach musical heaven. This is why we started this website/forum. I believe an amplifier must be technically able to drive headphones, should be configurable/flexible and have a minimal Freq range and THD should be low enough to not be 'audible'... 0.0000001% isn't better than 0.001% argument. Hell subjectively amplifiers (and vinyl) with distortion >1% often seem to be preferred over the technically better ones. Placebo or real ? Both sides believe they are right and I don't mind what they believe or hear. I am in a similar hearing boat as you are and thus don't want to spend high amounts of money but t.b.h. IF I had millions to burn I would probably just buy most of the stuff out there to have first hand experience. I would probably even buy power cables costing thousands because they look so impressive (like beautiful thick garden hoses) ! All that aside the Ember does do something different than others (easily tube change, lots of power, low heat, selectable output R) and at a 'reasonable' price for a handmade in low quantities amp. So does the 'Kameleon' which offers yet other options but for the portable range that I haven't seen anywhere else. |
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z0rk
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Post by z0rk on Jun 21, 2014 18:50:07 GMT
So it seems that there will not be a night and day difference between two well designed amps, except for power output and perhaps changing the sound by using tubes. So why do people spend thousands of dollars of solid state amps? Will there be a audible difference at those levels (beyond the power those amps might be able to generate)? [...] The reason people pay thousands on any amp could be: Pride of ownership. People have money to burn and don't know what else to do with it. Have something to boast about. Craftsmanship of the brand The choice of 'camp' (subjectivists or objectivists) one chooses or is forced to reside in The impressive looks (to match that of their uber expensive turntables) The fact that others cannot afford them and they have something almost unique. The idea that more expensive equals better quality The 'knowledge' rare components have been used (with unobtanium) The fact that others say it sounds heavenly. The FR or THD could be different Features the design has (crossfeed for example) The fact that their hearing is superior to those of others and can actually hear things the rest of us can't. (The fact that their wives and or some friends can easily hear it too is a bit suspect though) The fact that they actually DO sound better but are unable to 'measure' it (this is the most used argument) Placebo takes over at these price/looks level. I haven't figured it out yet, could be a combination of the things mentioned above or things I haven't thought about. IMO blind tests are telling me it doesn't have to cost that much to reach musical heaven. This is why we started this website/forum. [...] I love your list of "reasons"; I just purchased my second Ember. Keep up the good work. I hope Jeremy will be carrying the Kameleon soon. Cheers |
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Post by whitenoise on Jun 24, 2014 8:08:23 GMT
I joined the forum to give a big Thank You! to Jeremy and Frans! I received my Ember earlier today and I have been playing with it ever since. It's after 1am here and I should have went to bed earlier for work but I just can't put my cans down. This amp is a work of art! I have to wait for some tubes to arrive before I start rolling but the default tube is pretty good. It compares well to my ss amp. Thanks guys for all the work you put into this little amp with the big sound! My Ember earlier tonight:  |
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Post by richard51 on Jun 24, 2014 18:16:41 GMT
hello to all of you,
I am the happy owner of an Ember amp.... This week i had received a powered bookshelves systems the Swan M10 2.1... 2 satellites and a mid woofer.... I want to know if I may use the Ember like a pre-amp with the swans powered speakers? Is there any problem with that? i Have a Beresford bushmaster mkII dac pairing with the Ember...
Is there any advantage? thanks for your advise and time
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 24, 2014 18:34:10 GMT
I use mine into some powered Roland speakers and it sounds great. You need to turn the speakers off when listening on headphones.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Jun 24, 2014 18:39:09 GMT
No (technical) problems with that.
The advantage may be a higher output voltage and added harmonics.
The extra tone control may come in handy.
While the Ember can be used as a pre-amp / tubebuffer (and does a good job at it) it is primarily designed to work well with a very large range of headphones.
HiVi (Swans) is a brand that makes relatively cheap but very nice sounding speakers.
Never heard these though.
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Post by richard51 on Jun 24, 2014 19:38:27 GMT
thanks Solderdude,,,
i am listening now....The Ember volume is at almost maximum.... The volume pot of the powered Swan is at half level.... I think the sound is way more better...more clear bass and more detailed..in fact better mids that is for sure wow thanks for the advise
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Post by richard51 on Jun 24, 2014 20:00:22 GMT
No (technical) problems with that. The advantage may be a higher output voltage and added harmonics. The extra tone control may come in handy. While the Ember can be used as a pre-amp / tubebuffer (and does a good job at it) it is primarily designed to work well with a very large range of headphones. HiVi (Swans) is a brand that makes relatively cheap but very nice sounding speakers. Never heard these though. Thanks rabbit i will remember that ..... |
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Post by richard51 on Jun 24, 2014 20:09:14 GMT
dear Solderdude and Rabbit,
I have purchased the Ember for my He 400 Hifiman.... Because of his marvellous design and flexibility, his pre-amp function transform my listening with my Swan speakers... Its a big deal for me....Your Ember is a marvel of functionality... thanks
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 25, 2014 12:02:48 GMT
I really enjoy the Ember a great deal. It has become the only amp that I use now. I used to jump between the many amps that I have but no longer feel the need to now. Generally I use a modded T40 or a k612 or hd650/600 with it.
I use mine with speakers up virtually full and use the Ember as a volume control.
Sent from my GT-I9195 using proboards
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Post by whitenoise on Jun 28, 2014 4:45:26 GMT
I recently installed a Novib Socket saver on my Ember and I noticed the tube gets hotter than it did without the Novib. Is this normal? Anything I should worry about? Before the Novib the tubes would get warm. Now they get hot. Not so hot that I can't hold it for any amount of time but a decent amount hotter than before. and because I just have to: So Sexy...  |
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