solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 7, 2013 22:09:38 GMT
The volume cannot be 'changed' to a varying gain as this would mean overall (or local) feedback has to be used which would remove the 'triode' distortions at lower levels.  Also it would be impossible to turn the volume all the way down, one would only have a limited 'volume range'. The idea is not so bad though. Increasing the amount of capacitance on the PS line (I think this is what you mean with input capacitors) will make the power switch weld or the power supplies (the supplied SMPS) won't even start up as the inrush current would be too high. With voltages as high as 48V this becomes a serious problem. With 24V power supplies this is less of a problem. For this reason the Ember and Horizon have low capacitance power supply caps and those of the Sunrise(II) and Starlight are much higher. The amount of capacitance used on the Ember is close to the safe limit of what the supplied SMPS can stand. We even changed the PS switch position in the schematic to prevent 'welding'. we tried.... I do understand the reasoning behind it though and holds some truth. I have experimented with different value decoupling caps and ripple won't be reduced (the ripple isn't 100Hz when using SMPS) and bass response isn't increased with higher value caps. It DOES make a big difference (an increase in power cap values that is) for C'Moys with rail splitters or being fed of small batteries though. Here you can indeed get a (much) better bass response. We do appreciate any input for improvements and will incorporate them in future revisions. |
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Post by itsalive on Aug 8, 2013 10:02:09 GMT
Very cool, and love your Avatar! Enjoy and let us know what you think!  Hello Jeremy, i will try the ember intensively as soon i will have enough room on my desk to let my ember and my Philips DAC IS 5021 permanently plugged. I will compare the Ember and the Starlight with a friend (he bought a dacmagic 100 to feed the Starlight : It's a great combo). |
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Post by itsalive on Aug 8, 2013 12:24:34 GMT
The volume cannot be 'changed' to a varying gain as this would mean overall (or local) feedback has to be used which would remove the 'triode' distortions at lower levels. Also it would be impossible to turn the volume all the way down, one would only have a limited 'volume range'. The idea is not so bad though. Increasing the amount of capacitance on the PS line (I think this is what you mean with input capacitors) will make the power switch weld or the power supplies (the supplied SMPS) won't even start up as the inrush current would be too high. With voltages as high as 48V this becomes a serious problem. With 24V power supplies this is less of a problem. For this reason the Ember and Horizon have low capacitance power supply caps and those of the Sunrise(II) and Starlight are much higher. The amount of capacitance used on the Ember is close to the safe limit of what the supplied SMPS can stand. We even changed the PS switch position in the schematic to prevent 'welding'. we tried.... I do understand the reasoning behind it though and holds some truth. I have experimented with different value decoupling caps and ripple won't be reduced (the ripple isn't 100Hz when using SMPS) and bass response isn't increased with higher value caps. It DOES make a big difference (an increase in power cap values that is) for C'Moys with rail splitters or being fed of small batteries though. Here you can indeed get a (much) better bass response. We do appreciate any input for improvements and will incorporate them in future revisions. OK I understand, the key solution to improvements would be a custom PSU (R-Core they are more silent than thoroid PSU)... not really a cheap option.. For the moment i will enjoy the Ember, it's great amp even without mods, i have a bunch of tubes to try. |
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Post by jhelms on Aug 8, 2013 15:31:32 GMT
Agreed, a linear has been in the works for awhile now Originally we were gunning for an R-core however none were currently produced with the primary config we need / vs rating vs secondary voltages. So I contacted several manufacturers and the price for a custom unit put the supply cost-built, at more than an Ember. Currently the design will feature a nice toroid built for audio with shielding between primary and secondaries. It will be a very nice supply for a very good price which is what we are all about. |
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Post by itsalive on Aug 8, 2013 15:38:22 GMT
Agreed, a linear has been in the works for awhile now Originally we were gunning for an R-core however none were currently produced with the primary config we need / vs rating vs secondary voltages. So I contacted several manufacturers and the price for a custom unit put the supply cost-built, at more than an Ember. Currently the design will feature a nice toroid built for audio with shielding between primary and secondaries. It will be a very nice supply for a very good price which is what we are all about. great news, is this toroid will be shielded to prevent emitting toward other devices in the near environment? (a cover like this :  ) |
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 8, 2013 21:41:42 GMT
There are several kind of 'screens' possible when we talk of toroids.
The one Jeremy mentions is one that is not often found in most toroids and actually reduces 'leakage' between mains and the secondary windings because of capacitive coupling between the large surface of the primary windings and the close proximity (they are wound on top of each other) of the secondary windings. As these are close together over a large surface area there is a big capacitance and thus relatively high current leakage especially for high frequencies. R cores do not have this problem as the windings are far apart and thus there is little capacitance.
The screen BETWEEN the primary and secondary windings (when connected to ground/common/enclosure) divert the mains garbage to ground so they are not present (or at least greatly reduced) in the secondary winding.
On top of it it also has a magnetic screen around it.
They are SPECIFICALLY designed for audio equipment.
It is a 50VA version by the way so very over dimensioned, which I love...
The 'screen' in the picture of the previous post above could be a (mu) metal one (does not have to be grounded) and shields against magnetic fields so the magnetic fields generated by the transformer are contained within.
It could also be a 'normal' metal screen which needs to be grounded and are there to ensure HF common and differential mode mains garbage does not come outside of the traffo.
Finally there is the plastic enclosure which doesn't shield anything but may be there for rigidity or safety (touching of wires)
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Post by tommo21 on Aug 9, 2013 15:17:18 GMT
Here's Project Ember S/N:0020. Listening to it for the first time today:-)  I've bypassed the capacitators, but complete stock at the moment(oh..and the blue led). Got hundreds of tubes to try(from different projects), but got to get a feel of it at first I think:-) Sorry about the mess..I'm in between holidays, so it's a rush to try it out. HRT Microstreamer as DAC from PC and AKG K702 Annies at the moment. Also got a Philips Fidelio X1 to try out. I had ordered the Schiit Lyr, but opted to cancel it because of the flexibillity and tube rolling friendlyness the Ember's got:-) |
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 9, 2013 15:39:57 GMT
Welcome tommo21 (and techboy as well)
For headphones like the AKG K701/702 that may have been a wise decision.
The K702 may sound better (at least to some) driven from 'high output R' setting, makes them less 'edgy'.
The X1 may be most happy in the 'low-R' setting.
For both HP's experiment away (don't be fooled by the differences in loudness when changing settings but adjust the volume) and see which setting you prefer as it is something 'personal' as well.
Have fun tube swapping which is a lot easier with the Ember as well (it was designed with tube swapping in mind)
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Aug 9, 2013 15:59:32 GMT
Do they come in the same price league in terms of performance or is the difference huge between the two in terms of performance? Which is faster, cleaner, clearer btw Lyr and Ember? Ember is about $ 120 cheaper. sound quality of both is determined by the used tube. Schiit quotes: Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-200KHz, -3dB With stock tube Ember (32 Ohm load): 3Hz - 65kHz, -0.5dB 1.5Hz - 120kHz, -3dB I haven't seen any music files with relevant info below 10Hz and above 50kHz so both are equally 'clear'. Lyr will only accept certain 6V tubes, Ember will also accept 12V tubes (and set itself automatically). |
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Post by chinook9 on Aug 9, 2013 16:22:50 GMT
Techboy, I have owned a Sunrise II for 7 months and I am sure I will also own an Ember before the year is out. Before buying, I did the research you are presently doing and ended up with the Sunrise II. (This was before the Ember was released.)
I love the Sunrise II and have been told that both it and the Ember sound very much alike. That said, if I were to make a purchasing decision today, although I have never heard an Ember, I would go with the Ember primarily for the increased power (always good), the lack of heat, and the auto biasing.
I did most of my research on the headfi forum and I expect that would help you also. I believe I read one thread where the poster had compared a Lyr and a Sunrise II and everyone in his group of friends easily chose the Sunrise II.
As far as tubes providing the type of sound you mentioned on the previous page, I believe the stock tube on the Ember (a russian 6N1P I believe) will fill the bill.
I am retired (plenty of time) and I jumped into tube rolling the minute I got my Sunrise II. I didn't even listen to the 6N1P that came with the Sunrise II. A month ago, and 40+ tubes later (ranging in price from $3.99 to $180) I decided to try the 6N1P. To make a long story short, I now have 8 6N1P tubes and they are my favorites.
Good luck!
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Post by jhelms on Aug 9, 2013 16:43:36 GMT
Oldson - Good to hear (no pun intended)
Techboy, As Frans pointed out :
LD is all tube and not that well suited to drive low impedance headphones.
The Lyr, just like Ember can drive everything.
The Schiit has more power in low impedance cans but they drive high impedance headphones equally loud.
Both have triodes for voltage amplification and power output stages with local feedback.
The question is what headphones actually need 6W into 32 Ohm ?
The Ember has 3 selectable output impedances where the Lyr only has one.
The Lyr is shielded (metal enclosure) the Ember is open frame.
Ember is designed with tube rolling in mind, Lyr is not.
Sound-wise I reckon they are more similar than not except the Ember is more flexible with selectable output resistances selectable.
I would be partial if I were to recommend either, both amps are very good.
Whichever you choose you won't be disappointed.
Owners or members that have given Ember a run are better suited to say what to purchase, I am rather biased (again no pun intended) Trying to put myself totally outside, looking in, Ember would be my choice between a Lyr and an Ember because I like to roll tubes, I like adjustability. As Frans pointed out, I do not think you would be disappointed with either.
Chinook - Good to see you on here! Yeah I dig the 6n1p as well - I have quite a few. Shoot me a PM, would love to see what versions you have and see what you like best. I have some of the rare (well rare as in you never see them for sale on fleabay) 60's triple mica versions that I have been really enjoying as of late and of course it seems every version in between. They 60's triple resembles a 6n6p but it looks like someone put a photo of a 6n6p and shortened it down by around 1/2".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 17:11:04 GMT
i have been using the Ember with my lcd2 at around 8-9 o'clock on the vol pot. this is less than a third of its travel.
any louder and it turns my headphones into desktop speakers!
i doubt the Ember will ever be criticised for lack of power (or anything else for that matter).
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Post by razrr1275 on Aug 9, 2013 19:47:41 GMT
So I'm the guy from musicandlistening who did the review that Frans linked and I just wanted to post that if you have any questions or want me to try anything out just let me know and I'll try to do a mini-blog entry on the specific topic. Just so that you can request something that I can do, I'll list my headphone and tube inventory.
First I'm using the ODAC as a DAC
Headphones that I have are the Grado SR80I with L Cush, AKG K240 Sextett, AKG K702, Denon D2000, a modded set of Fostex T50RP (to my own configuration which I'll make a post about at some point in the near future) and Sennheiser HD280 Pro
Here's the fun bit. My tube inventory is
Electro Harmonix 6922 and 6N1P
Phillips 5814A
Tung Sol 5814WA and 12AU7
RCA 6CG7, 12BH7, 12AU7 Cleartop
GE 6GU7, 12AU7 and 12AV7 Cleartop
Sylvania 6CG7
Voshkod 6N1P-EV
Telefunken 12AU7
Siemens 12AU7
Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8
Tesla 6922
Brimar 12AU7
Mullard 12AU7
CBS/Hytron 12AU7
Sylvania/Baldwin 12AU7
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dicky
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Post by dicky on Aug 9, 2013 19:57:56 GMT
So I'm the guy from musicandlistening who did the review that Frans linked and I just wanted to post that if you have any questions or want me to try anything out just let me know and I'll try to do a mini-blog entry on the specific topic. Just so that you can request something that I can do, I'll list my headphone and tube inventory. First I'm using the ODAC as a DAC Headphones that I have are the Grado SR80I with L Cush, AKG K240 Sextett, AKG K702, Denon D2000, a modded set of Fostex T50RP (to my own configuration which I'll make a post about at some point in the near future) and Sennheiser HD280 Pro Here's the fun bit. My tube inventory is Electro Harmonix 6922 and 6N1P Phillips 5814A Tung Sol 5814WA and 12AU7 RCA 6CG7, 12BH7, 12AU7 Cleartop GE 6GU7, 12AU7 and 12AV7 Cleartop Sylvania 6CG7 Voshkod 6N1P-EV Telefunken 12AU7 Siemens 12AU7 Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 Tesla 6922 Brimar 12AU7 Mullard 12AU7 CBS/Hytron 12AU7 Sylvania/Baldwin 12AU7 Hi, I read your review and what I really liked about it was your explanation of the tube effects. Quite often I find it difficult to pick out differences so I found your explanations very useful. Thank you. |
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Aug 10, 2013 13:21:17 GMT
Perhaps. I have an Mf V1, V2, V8 and I'd say the Ember is more 'tubey' than those 3. (And more powerful) One of its advantages is that you can configure the gain and output impedance to suit what you are listening with. It works nicely as a pre-amp. I use it with some Roland active monitors as well as numerous headphones ranging from low to high impedance including a slightly more difficult load, a T40 and T50. All seem fine to me. If only you could give a description like that to an amp designer and he could build it to your demands eh? It really comes down to whether you like a tube sound or not. If you do, I'd say it would suit you. If you want to tailor the sound to your stated preferences above, I'd look at your headphones and speakers since changes there would be far greater. Most amps are pretty 'flat' and the Ember is flat way beyond your hearing. What headphones do you use? They are possibly the least flat thing in any setup. In my experience, most amps are pretty close. Ember gives some differences; More power for difficult loads and offers more dynamic range if your source offers it. Tube sound. Adjustable sensitivity. Adjustable output impedance. Easily changed tube with no fiddling. No heat generated so it will last longer. So you configure it according to what you are listening on or what you prefer. For the price, I really don't think there's much better. |
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Hello Jeremy, i will try the ember intensively as soon i will have enough room on my desk to let my ember and my Philips DAC IS 5021 permanently plugged.
