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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 7, 2017 2:50:21 GMT
That's encouraging. Have you played in the OPAMP swap swamp yet? I'd be terribly tempted to spend way too much money on some discrete opamps for unknown benefits. I'm familiar with the $$$ discrete opamps used in many $$$ mic preamps - some sound very, very good. In mic preamps. The temptation to opamp roll could negatively affect my tube buying spree. ;-) I have not rolled opamps yet. Jeremy kitted such a good sounding chip, I've not felt the need to change. My impression is, tubes will likely make the bigger difference, but I could very well be mistaken. I've swapped a few tubes because I own tube guitar amps, so already had some laying around. Besides, I'm notoriously cheap! Tubes better make a bigger difference or the whole G1217 marketing plan is doomed! LOL! According to Frans, over at the Polaris thread, the solid state outputs have very little effect on the tone color buffet. They provide no gain, so there can be no pain, right? ;-) While I'm a cheapskate too, I can get obsessed with chasing the law of diminishing returns until I crash into the law of supply and demand. As I mentioned in my initial post, I'm a recovering audiophile - I have to be careful about chasing sonic apparitions with thousand dollar magic wands and hundred dollar opamps. Fortunately some of my work does involve tracking sonic anomalies...but that's mainly an audio janitor position. ;-) What tubes have you swapped? And what phones do you use in the Starlight? |
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Post by marveltone on Jun 7, 2017 3:24:02 GMT
I found a GE5751 to be very dynamic and musical, but picked up too much hum from my laptop. I tried an old RCA 12AX7, but it was even more prone to outside interference. I'm currently using the JJ ECC82 that shipped with the amp. It'sa safe choice with a very quiet floor. I have a box of tubes packed away somewhere that I have yet to find. Someday I want to try a 6dj8 / 6922 / 6n23p.
The only headphones I own are a set of Grado SR80i, and a MassDrop/AKG K7XX. The Grado had too many resonances that couldn't be tamed (the Grado house sound), so I bought the AKG. The peaks in the upper end were brought under satisfactory control with felt and toilet paper. I really like how they've turned out.
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Post by tunkejazz on Jun 7, 2017 7:20:35 GMT
If you have ALSO Polaris in mind for the future I would actually go for Sunrise (class A). It has a different topology than Polaris and perhaps that way you get slightly different taste of sound signature with the combo. I love my ember with HD650 and HE400i...never passed 11 o clock with the volpot.
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 7, 2017 9:34:11 GMT
If you have ALSO Polaris in mind for the future I would actually go for Sunrise (class A). It has a different topology than Polaris and perhaps that way you get slightly different taste of sound signature with the combo. I love my ember with HD650 and HE400i...never passed 11 o clock with the volpot. That's sort of what I'm thinking...could go the summer/winter G1217 seasonal amping combo: Summer Solstice and then when Winter arrives fire up the Class A heaters with either a Sunrise or Horizon. That way I can experience the different topologies with my own ears and gear. If I can't tell a difference between them, then I'll just get a Polaris and change my user name to the 'Jfet Gourmet'. ;-) Or could just go all-season amp and get the Ember. For such a small outfit, G1217 sure offers a lot of choices! I like choice. Except when I have to make them one at a time. |
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Post by lobalwarming on Jun 29, 2017 22:22:33 GMT
For those of you watching at home who may have stopped eating and sleeping, or at least stopped reading this thread because of the tension of my G1217 indecision will be relieved to know a summer Solstice has arrived here at the LobalWarning Lab. I know I am.
It's so small. And so beautifully made. The internet doesn't do it justice.
How does it sound? It's super quiet. Brownian noise quiet. Not sure how quiet it will be when connected. All my outboard DAC gear is XLR or TRS 1/4". You'd think I'd have some RCA adapters. That's what I thought too. Need to drive into town and find some RCA plugs and make some cables. Until then I can just stare longingly at its lovely innards. And practice tube rolling without the troublesome sonic assessment part. ;-)
Thanks everyone who waded into my shallow end of the listening pool.
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Rabbit
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Post by Rabbit on Jun 30, 2017 10:55:42 GMT
Glad you like it. That was the first of the series that I heard and I loved it. Went on to the Horizon then the Ember and then Polaris. I now have both the Ember and Polaris, although my Ember is an original proto.
I'm going to eventually Kameleorise the Polaris I think, when I'm a bit more flush. The Kameleon unit that goes with it looks really nice and is in the same kind of style so it would make a lovely combo. Maybe just for my Senn HD650 and I'll use my other Kameleons for other headphones.
That'll stop me buying headphones, since the Kameleon really does sort the Senn out and the Kameleon would then be a dedicated amp.
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Post by lobalwarming on Jul 8, 2017 6:12:47 GMT
Finally... after days of delays was able to drive into the city and buy some plugs and cables. Made TRS to rca adapters and could bathe in the sweet warm summer Solstice. So much more pleasant than my dry, sterile of my usual pro audio phone amps. Coloured? Perhaps. But what a wonderful palette of tonal colours. Even with the 6dB loss going from balanced outs to unbalanced, still plenty of gain to drive the 650s to satisfying levels.
Jeremy included a RCA cleartop 12AU7 - sounds so sweet. Haven't been driven to roll around the 9 pin socket with the roller's starter kit. Yet. This is easily the most cost effective headamp purchase I've ever made. I'd type some more, but some tracks are pulling me into the Solstice and I just want to listen, not think or type.
Huge appreciation to Frans for designing and Jeremy for building so well such sweet little amps. And preemptive thanks for making the future G1217 tube DAC. ;-)
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Post by starence on Mar 1, 2018 11:21:52 GMT
I've had my Sunrise for a few weeks, and I'm starting to feel like maybe it's a little slower than I'd like. Is there a G1217 hybrid amp that would sound faster and more controlled, or am I better off sticking with SS amps?
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Post by lobalwarming on Mar 1, 2018 22:29:20 GMT
As a musician I get very confused when people use the term 'slower' or 'faster' when describing an amp. Do you mean the tempo of the music is changed by the Sunrise vs SS amp? Or do you mean apparent bandwidth, where slower = more rolled off in the treble?
In my experience with many SS amps, they can have exaggerated, unnatural high frequency response. And some cheap Asian designs can have overly smooth, ill-defined highs and mushy everything else.
Which tubes have you rolled so far? And what phones are you using? Do you have the 6SN7 adapter?
The point of the G1217 amps is to allow us to hear a wide variety of tubes at their naked best in zero-feedback Class A. Or their naked not so best. While generally tubes are far more linear voltage amplification devices than solid state, not all tube types respond as well in the lean plate G1217 designs.
I find many 12AU7 tubes have a pleasant sound, but less detail and high frequency extension that other tube families. In the 9pin minature range, my favs for detail and musicality are the Tungram ECC80 and the Tun-Sol 3-mica 6CG7. The RCA chrometop 6CG7/6FQ7 and GE JAN 6CG7 are very good as well. The 6CG7 are the lower-cost descendants of the 6SN7 - one of the most linear small signal tubes ever released. Not that fond of even the best very pricey 6DJ8s - while a few can be decent, compared to the better 6SN7s they just sound flat and not engaging to me. Not much better than a good SS amp.
Some really like the 12BH7 as well. Not my preferred cup of harshness, but that's the beauty of tube rolling - keep rolling - expanding the aural palette and soon you will discover a variety of great flavours that can suit your tastes, music and mood.
However, it is when you have the 6SN7 adapter that the sonic stage really opens up for enjoyable rolling in my experience. Since the 6SN7 (and the 12V version, 12SN7) was developed at peak of the tube research and development - and popularity - there's a vast sea of glass to explore.
From the smooth rich NU Black Glass to the 3D soundstage of the Sylvania 6SN7WGTs to uber-detailed Raytheon 2C50 into the rich vivid Tung-Sol Round Plate presentation - there's so many more tube rolling options to enjoy outside the less varied noval family. The 6SN7 family generally has a more relaxed and open sense of space which can make headphone listening more enjoyable. At least for me. The 6SN7 family is a sonic smorgasbord of possibilities to enjoy.
And then there's the twin tubes on an adapter option - the better 6J5/6C5/6P5 pairs can offer the large open soundstage with great extension top and bottom.
I use the Soltstice, which supports the 12SN7 family - same performance as the 6SN7s, but usually at much lower cost. I have a number of pro audio interfaces/SS amps for work. None that are as satisfying as a good tube in the Solstice for pure listening enjoyment.
I've found that spending at least 3-6 months rolling a variety of tubes will reward the ears with better acuity and enjoyment. Rushing to find the ideal sound in the first few weeks misses the best part of the tube rolling journey - the journey opens up the ears to nuances, the awareness of how our auditory perception is fluid, not static. How the brain can fool us with it's clever pattern matching abilities.
It's a subtle, but rewarding sonic journey where the final sonic destination isn't as important as the experience. Tube rolling can be the audio equivalent of wine tasting - but over a more humane timeline.
Ultimately, one's harsh and bright is another's neutral. And one's rolled-off is another's smooth and natural. Maybe the tube rolling journey isn't the sonic voyage you want. But, what if it is? Maybe give it more time if you can. If not, get the best SS amp that is the least annoying and fatiguing. And be secure in the knowledge that its sound will never change - for better or worse.
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Post by starence on Mar 2, 2018 4:55:42 GMT
To me, when an amp or headphone sounds slow, it's as if the notes are blurring together, like it almost can't keep up with the music. I think part of the reason I perceived the Sunrise as slow, is because I was listening with higher output impedance than I'm used to. Also, it might be just the nature of tubes.
My main headphone is the HD 650. I have a variety of tubes, a new production JJ ECC82, new production EH 12BH7, Sylvania 6CG7, Russian 6N6P, and a Sylvania 6SN7GTB. I'm not sure yet which tubes I prefer. I would like to get another 6SN7, the one I have may be a little too laid back.
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solderdude
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Post by solderdude on Mar 2, 2018 6:05:01 GMT
Just play with the settings a bit (output R).
But yes, the presentation, especially of the lower frequencies is tube and output resistance dependent which one cannot do with most other amps.
It could be you are more of a SS guy and don't particularly care for 'additions' though.
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Post by lobalwarming on Mar 2, 2018 8:58:12 GMT
The 650 is my primary as well. One of the more tonally balanced phones. If the output impedance is set higher than 32 ohms, it can sound a little mushy in the bass and midbass in my rig. How new/old are your 650s? What DAC are you using? What are the tracks the sound too slow or blurred? What SS amp have you compared to the Sunrise?
Sounds like you have a good start on the 9pin range. You may enjoy a Tungsram ECC80 as well. Or the TS 3 Mica 66CG7. Both offer exceptional clarity and detail.
A good change up from the Sylvania GTB is a Hytron 6SN7. It offers more detail and clarity with more high end extension and great 'speed'. Another fast tube is the Raytheon VT-231. It offers exception inner detail, but usually costs more than the CBS/Hytron. The Hytrons are still decent values. The Canadian GE 6SN7WGT is another great value with excellent clarity and speed. As is the Canadian Westinghouse 6SN7GT - if you can find one.
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Post by ronzo56 on Mar 3, 2018 1:03:59 GMT
Lobal. Do you mean the 6CG7? |
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Post by lobalwarming on Mar 3, 2018 2:18:34 GMT
That or the TS 3 Mica 666CG7 - made specifically for the devil's music. Like Jazz, Rock and all Classical music before it got old and godly.
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Post by ronzo56 on Mar 3, 2018 2:32:51 GMT
That or the TS 3 Mica 666CG7 - made specifically for the devil's music. Like Jazz, Rock and all Classical music before it got old and godly.  . I have a pair of Sylvania 6CG7’s in my Valhalla 2 which I happen to be listening to right now with a pair of HD600’s. Nice sound with classical music. |
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. I have a pair of Sylvania 6CG7’s in my Valhalla 2 which I happen to be listening to right now with a pair of HD600’s. Nice sound with classical music.